2005 Jeep TJ not starting

[MarioJC1]

Hey guys,
Hoping someone can help me diagnose my issue. I've been reading many threads but couldn't find the same conditions mine is experiencing. Picked up my daughter from softball last night, and about 5 minutes after I turned the Jeep off, I went back in to start it. Nothing happening- gauge clusters operate as usual, but turning the key did zilch. I cleaned and re-tightened both battery terminals, tried jumpstarting just to see and nothing. Checked starter fuses and swapped relay with the horn relay (which worked when honked horn) and nothing. I assumed the starter had gone bad and tapped it a few times and nothing. Tried jumping the starter relay, and the starter did engage, fan spun etc. but the engine would not turn over- it just kept cranking with zero sign of catching. Called mechanic and he thinks it could be that the starter is turning but not fully engaging, but I need to tow the Jeep over to get it diagnosed. In the meantime I figured I'd see if anyone else might have a suggestion.
I did not check to see if the ignition actuator pin was broken or replace the ignition switch since I don't have spares, but wouldn't jumping the relay bypass those?
Thanks ahead of time guys! Appreciate any help

 

[nk24]

I did not check to see if the ignition actuator pin was broken or replace the ignition switch

I'd start here. There's really no warning when this happens and the things you are describing align with one of these parts failing.

It's a fairly simple job. This was the best video I found when I replaced mine.

but wouldn't jumping the relay bypass those?

I couldn't get it to fully start by jumping the relay either.

 

[ItchyDong]

Manual or automatic?

 

[MarioJC1]

Sorry should have noted- 4.0, 6spd manual.

 

[ItchyDong]

Bypass your clutch switch before throwing an ignition at it.

 

[ItchyDong]

Make damn sure it's in neutral!

 

[MarioJC1]

I'd start here. There's really no warning when this happens and the things you are describing align with one of these parts failing.

It's a fairly simple job. This was the best video I found when I replaced mine.

I couldn't get it to fully start by jumping the relay either.

Interesting- from what I've been reading, some folks had luck bypassing (jumping) the relay and it worked. I ended up having it towed to a mechanic, so I'll let you know what it was once I find out. I suspected this could be it, but the fact that it would not start when bypassing (and holding clutch in while in neutral) led me to think it was something else.

 

[MarioJC1]

Bypass your clutch switch before throwing an ignition at it.

I thought I did that, by placing a fuse into the empty (#20) lower-left corner of glove box fuse box.
For sure had it in neutral with e-brake on and also ran around the side and depressed clutch in another attempt while it was cranking.

 

[ItchyDong]

Interesting- from what I've been reading, some folks had luck bypassing (jumping) the relay and it worked. I ended up having it towed to a mechanic, so I'll let you know what it was once I find out. I suspected this could be it, but the fact that it would not start when bypassing (and holding clutch in while in neutral) led me to think it was something else.

Sounds like an ignition switch if you jumped the switch and was able to jump the solenoid and get it to turn over. Other unlikely causes could be a broken/disconnected wire. You could run continuity through the switch to be sure.

 

[ItchyDong]

The whole "starter partially engaging" is bullshit.

 

[ItchyDong]

I thought I did that, by placing a fuse into the empty (#20) lower-left corner of glove box fuse box.
For sure had it in neutral with e-brake on and also ran around the side and depressed clutch in another attempt while it was cranking.

I don't see any way putting a fuse into the #20 position did anything. I'm looking at my 2006 print though. My diagram just show's #20 being a spare slot. If you kept a spare fuse in there, you'd always be able to start the Jeep without the clutch...

 

[MarioJC1]

I don't see any way putting a fuse into the #20 position did anything. I'm looking at my 2006 print though. My diagram just show's #20 being a spare slot. If you kept a spare fuse in there, you'd always be able to start the Jeep without the clutch...

I used this as a guide:
https://knigaproavto.ru/shemy/en/jeep/wrangler/920-1997-2006-jeep-wrangler-tj-fuse-box-diagram.html

 

[MarioJC1]

I used this as a guide:
https://knigaproavto.ru/shemy/en/jeep/wrangler/920-1997-2006-jeep-wrangler-tj-fuse-box-diagram.html

And this video (2:30 mark)

 

[ItchyDong]

Hmm. Well this is all from your 2005 manual. I can't find anything that says installing a fuse there bypasses anything.

 

[MarioJC1]

I was grasping at straws- so much info out there to try and help diagnose I wanted to be sure I tried everything I could before admitting defeat. If the jeep was stranded at home i'd still be out there but couldn't leave it at the park much longer.
Funny thing is, I had an issue starting it a couple years back that somehow resolved itself- I could never really diagnose what I did that made it start firing up again. At least nothing that made any sense to me.

 

[ItchyDong]

I was grasping at straws- so much info out there to try and help diagnose I wanted to be sure I tried everything I could before admitting defeat. If the jeep was stranded at home i'd still be out there but couldn't leave it at the park much longer.
Funny thing is, I had an issue starting it a couple years back that somehow resolved itself- I could never really diagnose what I did that made it start firing up again. At least nothing that made any sense to me.

Well, for what it's worth, it could still be something else. My point was that I don't believe you actually tested the clutch switch. Could still be an ignition switch but a quick bypass could've pointed you in the next direction. A multimeter or test light at the control side of the solenoid would've been good or a continuity test through ignition switch, but I'm sure your garage will get it fixed. I just hope you don't pay for a starter you don't need.

 

[MarioJC1]

I'm not much of a mechanic to be honest, so forgive my naivety
"A multimeter or test light at the control side of the solenoid would've been good" = didn't jumping the relay and activating the starter prove the starter solenoid was good?
"or a continuity test through ignition switch" =Not even sure how I'd perform that.

 

[ItchyDong]

I'm not much of a mechanic to be honest, so forgive my naivety
"A multimeter or test light at the control side of the solenoid would've been good" = didn't jumping the relay and activating the starter prove the starter solenoid was good?
"or a continuity test through ignition switch" =Not even sure how I'd perform that.

It’s all good that you don’t understand... yet. I love teaching people who are curious and humble. Of course, over the internet, it’s harder.
Jumping the relay proved the wires were good from the relay to the solenoid, and the solenoid is operational. By sticking a test lamp on the control side and turning the key would’ve proven the key isn’t getting power to the solenoid. You couldn’t also stabbed the input to the control side of the starter relay while turning the key to see if the key was getting it there as well. All that being said, if the clutch switch was bad, it wouldn’t allow juice to get to either of those points which is why we should’ve jumped it. To prove it was an ignition switch.
A continuity test is literally using a multimeter to shoot a very small voltage through a component, wire, or ground to see if you pick that voltage back up on the other side of the multimeter. I promise, a few videos or explanations, and you’ll understand fully what I mean. It’s an invaluable testing method.

 

[JKP]

Download a copy of your owners manual from Jeep.com

The Jeep doesn't know if the trans is in N or not and doesn't care. Only that you depress the clutch.

This is how you override the clutch safety switch:


Clutch Interlocking Ignition System (Non —
Rubicon Models Only)
Manual transmission vehicles are equipped with a clutch
interlock safety feature. With this feature engaged, you
must depress the clutch pedal to allow cranking of the
engine. To temporarily bypass this safety feature while
off-road driving (4L range only), which will allow cranking
the engine without depressing the clutch, follow
these steps:
1. Locate the Power Distribution Center (PDC) in the
engine compartment. Refer to “Fuse Panel” in Section 7
of this manual. (See page 305 for more information.)
2. Put a 10 Amp fuse in the PDC cavity (#28) marked as
Clutch Override.
NOTE: A fuse is provided in fuseblock cavity (f19 or
f20) marked as Spare.


If you have a Rubi, all you have to do is put it in 4L and the clutch safety is overriden.

 

[MarioJC1]

So got the Jeep back yesterday- turns out it was indeed the ignition pin. I had them replace the switch while they were in there. All good now, except my checking account and pride. Wish I had the parts- would have done it myself. Oh well.
Thanks guys!