Dave Kishpaugh's (Jeep West) geometry correction brackets are now available

[jjvw]

See but there is an issue in the way that you approach it. You bought your mid arm on what, 2” of lift? On 32s or 33s or something? Why? Why did you get it? Did you wheel hard enough then to fix the issues you encounters by already being on a 4” and 35”s? If the savvy mid arm can be geometry corrected for greater road stability (it can be and is all the time) then why would that be looked at as the gold standard? Why not encourage people who don’t “qualify” for the mid arm in many of y’all’s eyes to get the geo correction? Why not?? What’s the harm??

Opportunity mixed with stubborn naivety. This is no secret. Early on, it was neither a meaningful benefit nor a detriment, just different. Everything I did after the mid arm has been more valuable and has brought me into where the Savvy mid arm shows what it can do, even if someone here can't recognize that despite video evidence.

The harm is not in doing it. The harm is in doing something under a false or misleading expectation of what the end result will be. I found out that Dave's geometry correction kit hops like a jumping jack in exactly a situation where geometry starts to matter. When confronted with this reality, the designer backtracks after 18 pages and says his geo correction kit is for street use. And people get mad at me? I'm not the one selling something. I'm not the one trying to gaslight you with incoherent and conflicting arguments.

 

[jjvw]

Yeah once I see what it worse about the geo correction than stock I’ll bite my tongue. Until then....welp.....

Who said things are worse?

 

[jjvw]

Apparently I’m always not paying attention who cares if rear steer is a real thing and makes a difference? Who cares if metal cloak really makes a difference with their Kevlar bushings? Does it help? As far as MC does for sure not. But does geo correction improve a stock tj?

You have paid attention elsewhere. You just aren't doing it here.

 

[Gollywomper]

Let get back to the topic on hand. Quit comparing a couple brackets to a $3k mid arm. I quit playing with link calculator years ago, they give me a headache. Hehe.
can someone input the numbers on a 4” short arm and then on a geo correction? Let’s actually look into the numbers and what kind of improvements may be seen.

Enough of the bickering it is doing nothing good.

 

[jjvw]

No, I agree that your entire response, from the beginning of this thread is agenda driven...

What's my agenda? To get more mid arms sold? I didn't post those videos until Dave started telling me how poorly my Jeep behaves.

 

[BuildBreakRepeat]

You have paid attention elsewhere. You just aren't doing it here.

No no I am paying attention I promise. I was under the guise that Dave’s brackets weren’t meant to be as good as the mid arm. Also I’d like to say that I honestly appreciate you getting the mid arm super early in your build because it made me realize I should sell mine - it just wasn’t the direction I should go given my needs and you helped me with that. I understand the need for honestly from builders in the Jeep community. And that’s why I wish people like @mrblaine would have less convictions and actually say the issues they have with things like Dave’s brackets instead of a gentleman’s agreement not to piss in each other’s cereal. I don’t think Dave said anywhere that his brackets improved climbing, which is one of the big reasons given for upgrading from the short arm to the mid arm.

 

[Pressurized]

What's my agenda? To get more mid arms sold? I didn't post those videos until Dave started telling me how poorly my Jeep behaves.

You were anti geo correction and anti Dave, long before that. And you're entirely disingenuous to say you weren't. I don't give a damn what you have against Dave, seriously couldn't care less. But your downplay of the geometry changes with the brackets is ridiculous.

 

[jjvw]

...

Dave has said that outboard will help his kit. A caliper flip doesn't have anything to do with geometry or handling, and mid arms, by your own admission, are unnecessary for most users.

How many outboards have you done? The caliper flip does nothing but make an outboard easier and package better. One outboard is enough to figure this out. Yet Dave has gone out of his way to not do this for reasons I cannot understand. Combined with everything else I pointed out, it is clear that there is an agenda.

 

[jjvw]

You were anti geo correction and anti Dave, long before that. And you're entirely disingenuous to say you weren't. I don't give a damn what you have against Dave, seriously couldn't care less. But your downplay of the geometry changes with the brackets is ridiculous.

My fundamental reasons have not changed.

 

[Pressurized]

This thread reminds me of when the Chevy guys used to all hit the Ford forums just to start shit...

But I'm not helping either, so I'm done with the back and forth.

 

[toximus]

@Pressurized Let's see some videos of your geometry correction brackets doing what they do. Show us how improved your Jeep is because of them.

 

[Gollywomper]

Why do you guys keep trolling a thread for a product you have no interest in? Even if the improvements are placebo why do you guys care so much?

 

[Trevlaw]

This entire thread is ridiculous. Just the price tag on each of these items should answer the question of whether or not one of these is better than the other in about 2 seconds. There's just no way savvy would be successfully ripping people off this long if Dave's was just as good or better, and there's no way Dave would be selling these this cheap if they were as good as a $3k mid arm. Any arguing after that is a waste of breath and a pile of tenderized horse. There two different things for completely different prices and different setups.

I feel like Dave knows this and is getting tired defending it to people talking shit about something cool that he produces and sells for a very reasonable price while comparing it to one of the more expensive setups.

And personally the only one in this thread going after Blaine seems to be JJVW, I guess as they say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. The answering questions with questions, the smart ass remarks and the seemingly endless amount of knowledge are what I have come to expect from blaines posts over the years and I can appreciate it and I enjoy it, but I don't think there's a huge need for another.

And for everyone asking JJVW why he has a mid arm, why didn't he build his own with his vast wisdom of geometry and hundreds of jeep builds under his belt. We both bought the mid arm when it was first being released, I want to say a full set of JJ currie SA's was like $1200ish. The mid arm wasn't always $3k, mine cost about $1850 to my door. Probably not super relevant, but missing from the thread, so take it for what it's worth.

 

[jjvw]

.... We both bought the mid arm when it was first being released, I want to say a full set of JJ currie SA's was like $1200ish. The mid arm wasn't always $3k, mine cost about $1850 to my door. Probably not super relevant, but missing from the thread, so take it for what it's worth.

Opportunity

 

[jjvw]

...

And personally the only one in this thread going after Blaine seems to be JJVW, ...

That's funny!

 

[JMT]

I found out that Dave's geometry correction kit hops like a jumping jack in exactly a situation where geometry starts to matter.

The videos are not exactly an apples to apples comparison. Little things matter, even the line you took. You are farther driver than @starkey480 , especially with the rear driver wheel. He is going straighter up the climb, amidst the other issues like 2.72:1 vs 4:1. If you're convinced, that's great, but it's more complicated than a couple videos.

EDIT: Also, what's @taylormade73 setup? Isn't he running a Savvy mid-arm? He's an LJ, I believe 4:1, can't remember all the details. @starkey480 indicated Jason's wheel speed was not enough and he fell off driver, but I watched the videos side by side of you and Garrett multiple times and neither one of you have a lot of wheel speed. Starkey appears to have slightly more, which could account for some of the additional bouncing..

 

[BuildBreakRepeat]

The videos are not exactly an apples to apples comparison. Little things matter, even the line you took. You are farther driver than @starkey480 , especially with the rear driver wheel. He is going straighter up the climb, amidst the other issues like 2.72:1 vs 4:1. If you're convinced, that's great, but it's more complicated than a couple videos.

Let’s not forget about the terrible Ranchos vs the golden standard foxes as well!!!

 

[P man]

Let’s not forget about the terrible Ranchos vs the golden standard foxes as well!!!

Ranchos are for poor people

 

[BuildBreakRepeat]

Ranchos are for poor people

Then consider me the few that never want to be rich bury me with my white tubes....foaming oil and all!!!

 

[jjvw]

The videos are not exactly an apples to apples comparison. Little things matter, even the line you took. You are farther driver than @starkey480 , especially with the rear driver wheel. He is going straighter up the climb, amidst the other issues like 2.72:1 vs 4:1. If you're convinced, that's great, but it's more complicated than a couple videos.

EDIT: Also, what's @taylormade73 setup? Isn't he running a Savvy mid-arm? He's an LJ, I believe 4:1, can't remember all the details. @starkey480 indicated Jason's wheel speed was not enough and he fell off driver, but I watched the videos side by side of you and Garrett multiple times and neither one of you have a lot of wheel speed. Starkey appears to have slightly more, which could account for some of the additional bouncing..

If you really want to recognize what high antisquat vs corrected geometry looks like, rewatch the videos.

And no, TM is running Savvy short arms.