Long Arm Lifts vs. Short Arm Lifts

[AndyG]

Have any of you guys seen full size 4wd trucks running around with 6' plus long arms? We have a few around town ...they will fit a bump and you can see the entire body move left to right 3-4 inches.

I knew a really sharp salesman years ago...and whatever people were normally buying , he took them as far away from that concept as possible with what he would present. Long Arms do that in the market place...oh wow, check these out, they are like, long. This has to be a game changer...I mean, they are long. Geeeze.

 

[jjvw]

And don't forget that a bolt-on long arm always sacrifices belly height as part of the package. Notice how all the long arm systems from Rubicon Express to Metalcloak all have a belly that hangs much lower than your typical tummy tuck you can get away with on a short arm setup (or a cut-and-weld mid-arm install).

Have you ever seen any bolt-on long arm system with a nearly flat skid plate? (Nth Degree being the only exception.)

Much of that is the result of ease of packaging. That ease of packaging is where the over correction of the geometry comes from.

What most don't understand is that none of this matters for most people. They aren't fixing a problem they have. And the problem they create is just different from the one they solved. But they aren't experiencing the new problem either.

 

[AndyG]

Much of that is the result of ease of packaging. That ease of packaging is where the over correction of the geometry comes from.

What most don't understand is that none of this matters for most people. They aren't fixing a problem they have. And the problem they create is just different from the one they solved. But they aren't experiencing the new problem either.

Well said.

 

[jjvw]

Have any of you guys seen full size 4wd trucks running around with 6' plus long arms? We have a few around town ...they will fit a bump and you can see the entire body move left to right 3-4 inches.

I knew a really sharp salesman years ago...and whatever people were normally buying , he took them as far away from that concept as possible with what he would present. Long Arms do that in the market place...oh wow, check these out, they are like, long. This has to be a game changer...I mean, they are long. Geeeze.

I can only assume those same guys are also running garbage shocks reenforced with the sincere belief that their truck rides like a truck.

 

[Chris]

Much of that is the result of ease of packaging. That ease of packaging is where the over correction of the geometry comes from.

What most don't understand is that none of this matters for most people. They aren't fixing a problem they have. And the problem they create is just different from the one they solved. But they aren't experiencing the new problem either.

But...but...but... LOCK-N-LOAD!

 

[Wildman]

Have you ever seen any bolt-on long arm system with a nearly flat skid plate? (Nth Degree being the only exception.)

I was gunna post a picture of my tummy tuck w/my long arms...

 

[Brianj5600]

Longer than stock arm length can better maintain geometry throughout the travel. Too long sacrifices geometry, which is why mid arms are getting more popular.

 

[Chris]

I was gunna post a picture of my tummy tuck w/my long arms...

Yours is Nth Degree which is seemingly the only decent bolt-on long arm ever made.

 

[Chris]

I can only assume those same guys are also running garbage shocks reenforced with the sincere belief that their truck rides like a truck.

Have you seen the older lifts that some company used to make for the TJ with wishbone uppers in the rear?

I'd never seen one of these before until this past weekend but he informed me that companies (not sure who) used to make them for the TJ back in the day.

I believe it's a 4-link rear and it has a truss on the rear axle much like a Savvy mid-arm setup, but as oppose to the upper two links forming a triangle, it's a wishbone.

Blew my mind as I never knew these existed.

It would be interesting to know what problem they were trying to solve with this setup.

 

[AndyG]

I can only assume those same guys are also running garbage shocks reenforced with the sincere belief that their truck rides like a truck.

Probably so. You can watch them in traffic and tell it's a train wreck. And to top it off..they work out of them. Kills me. I'm getting into my personal view maybe, but I'd never pull up to a remodeling job looking like a jack wagon.

 

[AndyG]

Longer than stock arm length can better maintain geometry throughout the travel. Too long sacrifices geometry, which is why mid arms are getting more popular.

Here's one- how long is a long arm
..and how long is a mid arm..at what point does a mid arm become a long arm?

Not trying to be funny....I'm completely serious. Bear in mind I've never seen a mid arm.

 

[Chris]

Here's one- how long is a long arm
..and how long is a mid arm..at what point does a mid arm become a long arm?

Not trying to be funny....I'm completely serious. Bear in mind I've never seen a mid arm.

Everything is relative.

A long arm is only called a "long arm" because it's longer than the factory short arm. I think Blaine called the mid-arm just that because the length of the arm fell in between the factory short arm and a typical long arm setup.

That and I'm sure Blaine being who he is likely just didn't want to be associated with the bullshit that goes along with all the aftermarket "long arm" lifts and their marketing bullshit.

Had he called it a long arm, I'm sure some idiot would have managed to group it with all the others on the market.

 

[jjvw]

Probably so. You can watch them in traffic and tell it's a train wreck. And to top it off..they work out of them. Kills me. I'm getting into my personal view maybe, but I'd never pull up to a remodeling job looking like a jack wagon.

For his last truck before he retired, my dad lowered it because it was easier to load material in and out of it. Took him 40 years to figure that out!

 

[jjvw]

Here's one- how long is a long arm
..and how long is a mid arm..at what point does a mid arm become a long arm?

Not trying to be funny....I'm completely serious. Bear in mind I've never seen a mid arm.

Length is a by product of the mounting points.

This is a mid arm.

 

[Wildman]

Have you seen the older lifts that some company used to make for the TJ with wishbone uppers in the rear?

I'd never seen one of these before until this past weekend but he informed me that companies (not sure who) used to make them for the TJ back in the day.

I believe it's a 4-link rear and it has a truss on the rear axle much like a Savvy mid-arm setup, but as oppose to the upper two links forming a triangle, it's a wishbone.

Blew my mind as I never knew these existed.

It would be interesting to know what problem they were trying to solve with this setup.

Full Traction still makes the lift. As a matter of fact I would have gone with this on my Jeep instead of the Nth Degree but ORO won't use this with the AiRock due to the wishbone in the rear.

Full-Traction - Jeep TJ Wrangler (full-traction.com)

 

[jjvw]

Everything is relative.

A long arm is only called a "long arm" because it's longer than the factory short arm. I think Blaine called the mid-arm just that because the length of the arm fell in between the factory short arm and a typical long arm setup.

That and I'm sure Blaine being who he is likely just didn't want to be associated with the bullshit that goes along with all the aftermarket "long arm" lifts and their marketing bullshit.

Had he called it a long arm, I'm sure some idiot would have managed to group it with all the others on the market.

He designed for better behaving geometry. The arms ended up being as long as they needed to be to create that.

 

[Chris]

Full Traction still makes the lift. As a matter of fact I would have gone with this on my Jeep instead of the Nth Degree but ORO won't use this with the AiRock due to the wishbone in the rear.

Full-Traction - Jeep TJ Wrangler (full-traction.com)

This wasn't the lift he had. The upper arms were rounded on top I believe.

That one you linked to is unlike anything I've ever seen before either. How much can that single joint on the rear truss (where the arms come together as one) actually move under full articulation? It seems like the rear upper being one piece would be very limiting, no?

@Dale W, want to share photos of your rear setup? I'd never seen anything like it until last weekend.

 

[jjvw]

Full Traction still makes the lift. As a matter of fact I would have gone with this on my Jeep instead of the Nth Degree but ORO won't use this with the AiRock due to the wishbone in the rear.

Full-Traction - Jeep TJ Wrangler (full-traction.com)

Once upon a time, either Rough Country or Rubicon Express made a wishbone rear upgrade to their long arm.

 

[Wildman]

Once upon a time, either Rough Country or Rubicon Express made a wishbone rear upgrade to their long arm.

Rubicon Express.

 

[Wildman]

Is this it?

Yours is Nth Degree which is seemingly the only decent bolt-on long arm ever made.

There were many things I liked about it but my MAIN reason for taking it off was that my Jeep was really light in the front when climbing and some of the trails in Rimrock are STEEP. Scared me enough I was shaking and had to call someone from my club to come back down and hook a winch to me. I really thought I was going over backwards.

I could step on my brakes and gun the engine and the Jeep would raise up about 6-8".

And then I had real bad hop in the rear on some climbs. Plus I was never really a huge fan of radius arms in the front.