Pros and Cons of a 3-Link Front End?

[jjvw]

Correct me if I am wrong, but that entails cutting off stock mount, weld in the brace, then new mount?

Correct. The Savvy also raises and moves the mount over to one side a bit.

 

[Mike_H]

@jjvw , Thank you for the input. I read in a past post it does affect handling a bit. What changes have been most significant you have noticed as a DD? I have noticed when cycling my suspension of some bind, and it could be relieved by removing the passenger arm. Have short arms now, and in process of alleviate I would call 'wonkiness' of rear axle. Its a 8.8 with Artec kit, 4" Currie springs, Rancho 9000 shocks. Re-drilled lower frame mounts with 9th degree plate, and plan on raising the upper control arm mounts on axle about 2" to have a more separation at axle hopefully making it feel more stable. I am open to criticism if these are bad choices.

@kmas0n , Thank you also. I do have the Currie aluminum double adjustable JJ arms, Currie track bars, and all of the OEM mounts on the 30 have been removed and installed beefier mounts, along with the track bar mount is stronger. There is an end to my question is that I have an LR4 in, and want to install an A/C compressor in stock location, which is down beside the crank pulley, opposite of the ps pump. Only issue is the passenger arm will wack the pump, no bueno.

IIRC, redrilling the lower mounts with the Nth bracket requires the use of their upper relocation too, or the stinger setup. That could be the source of your issues in the rear.

I'd put the control arms back to factory location until you have your uppers figured out.

 

[Wildman]

IIRC, redrilling the lower mounts with the Nth bracket requires the use of their upper relocation too, or the stinger setup. That could be the source of your issues in the rear.

I'd put the control arms back to factory location until you have your uppers figured out.

He hasn't moved the rear arms yet just marked and drilled the brackets with the templet. Now he's trying to figure out how to have clearance for his A/C compressor without having to spend the $1k+ for custom brackets. But if he mounts it where it came on his engine stock his passenger side upper suspension arm would smack it.

 

[mrblaine]

Actually I was hoping @mrblaine could chime in and tell me what a rediculus idea this is.

I have done it a few times using the Savvy Mid arm truss, building a new upper arm with lower joints on it, and then widening out the inboard side of the rear frame mount with a larger hole for the bolt.

 

[mrblaine]

It makes me wonder about the kits out there that use the upper mount on the axle. I want to know how durable they could really be.

They scare me a fair bit.

 

[freedom_in_4low]

They scare me a fair bit.

Have you seen one fail before? I've been curious where it's strength falls between the gobs of material around it vs it's material properties when compared to the steel plate one would use to make a new one.

 

[freedom_in_4low]

Not a big one, though. The Savvy kit uses a 2.5" JJ for the front upper. Same size as the lowers.

Agreed - I just forgot to hit reply to make it clear I was responding to the post above mine that seemed to suggest that the only choices for the stock mount were the stock rubber or that Rock Krawler part.

 

[mrblaine]

Have you seen one fail before? I've been curious where it's strength falls between the gobs of material around it vs it's material properties when compared to the steel plate one would use to make a new one.

You're asking one arm to do the work of two arms, why aren't you scared as well?

 

[jjvw]

You're asking one arm to do the work of two arms, why aren't you scared as well?

Since a 3 link + track bar relys on every link to keep the axle in place, I would want to be confident that all parts are up to the task.

 

[freedom_in_4low]

You're asking one arm to do the work of two arms, why aren't you scared as well?

I didn't say I wasn't. And if I was asking one arm to do the work of 2, I would absolutely want the arm and the mounts to be as strong as 2, and if I was gonna go to the trouble of beefing up one upper arm and it's frame bracket to make a 3 link, I'd just buy a Savvy midarm and do it right.

That I occasionally hear about CA bracket failures but have never heard of a cast mount failing would imply that it's already stronger than the stock bracket mounts are, but I don't have the resources to determine whether it's 200% or 105% and I don't have near enough exposure to know whether there are enough TJ's running a 3 link shortarm with a stock mount to provide a statistically significant failure rate. It's a moot point since you can't install a 2.5" JJ in that hole but that doesn't relieve my interest in whether people have tried it and broken it off.

Not trying to cast doubt or question anybody, just trying to learn. I don't just want to know how to catch a specific species of fish with specific equipment in specific conditions, which means I'm going to have to ask some theoretical questions on the way to understanding the underlying principles of fishing that can be applied universally.

 

[Wildman]

I didn't say I wasn't. And if I was asking one arm to do the work of 2, I would absolutely want the arm and the mounts to be as strong as 2, and if I was gonna go to the trouble of beefing up one upper arm and it's frame bracket to make a 3 link, I'd just buy a Savvy midarm and do it right.

That I occasionally hear about CA bracket failures but have never heard of a cast mount failing would imply that it's already stronger than the stock bracket mounts are, but I don't have the resources to determine whether it's 200% or 105% and I don't have near enough exposure to know whether there are enough TJ's running a 3 link shortarm with a stock mount to provide a statistically significant failure rate. It's a moot point since you can't install a 2.5" JJ in that hole but that doesn't relieve my interest in whether people have tried it and broken it off.

Not trying to cast doubt or question anybody, just trying to learn. I don't just want to know how to catch a specific species of fish with specific equipment in specific conditions, which means I'm going to have to ask some theoretical questions on the way to understanding the underlying principles of fishing that can be applied universally.

I like the way you think.... I like to know things a little more sometimes too.

 

[Blackjack]

I didn't say I wasn't. And if I was asking one arm to do the work of 2, I would absolutely want the arm and the mounts to be as strong as 2, and if I was gonna go to the trouble of beefing up one upper arm and it's frame bracket to make a 3 link, I'd just buy a Savvy midarm and do it right.

That I occasionally hear about CA bracket failures but have never heard of a cast mount failing would imply that it's already stronger than the stock bracket mounts are, but I don't have the resources to determine whether it's 200% or 105% and I don't have near enough exposure to know whether there are enough TJ's running a 3 link shortarm with a stock mount to provide a statistically significant failure rate. It's a moot point since you can't install a 2.5" JJ in that hole but that doesn't relieve my interest in whether people have tried it and broken it off.

Not trying to cast doubt or question anybody, just trying to learn. I don't just want to know how to catch a specific species of fish with specific equipment in specific conditions, which means I'm going to have to ask some theoretical questions on the way to understanding the underlying principles of fishing that can be applied universally.

I do not think the cast mount itself is the issue it it the size of the joint that can be installed in it that is the problem.

 

[jjvw]

I didn't say I wasn't. And if I was asking one arm to do the work of 2, I would absolutely want the arm and the mounts to be as strong as 2, and if I was gonna go to the trouble of beefing up one upper arm and it's frame bracket to make a 3 link, I'd just buy a Savvy midarm and do it right.

That I occasionally hear about CA bracket failures but have never heard of a cast mount failing would imply that it's already stronger than the stock bracket mounts are, but I don't have the resources to determine whether it's 200% or 105% and I don't have near enough exposure to know whether there are enough TJ's running a 3 link shortarm with a stock mount to provide a statistically significant failure rate. It's a moot point since you can't install a 2.5" JJ in that hole but that doesn't relieve my interest in whether people have tried it and broken it off.

Not trying to cast doubt or question anybody, just trying to learn. I don't just want to know how to catch a specific species of fish with specific equipment in specific conditions, which means I'm going to have to ask some theoretical questions on the way to understanding the underlying principles of fishing that can be applied universally.

If we assume the cast mount itself is sufficiently strong, what about the little factory bushing, JJ, MC or whatever will fit in there? That piece, both ends of the arm, is being asked to do more than it used to.

I do know a guy who did the "factory 3 link". I recall the issue he had was with the axle side bushing not living long. And this was with trailer queen.

 

[freedom_in_4low]

I do not think the cast mount itself is the issue it it the size of the joint that can be installed in it that is the problem.

If we assume the cast mount itself is sufficiently strong, what about the little factory bushing, JJ, MC or whatever will fit in there? That piece, both ends of the arm, is being asked to do more than it used to.

I do know a guy who did the "factory 3 link". I recall the issue he had was with the axle side bushing not living long. And this was with trailer queen.

Absolutely agree.

It's a moot point since you can't install a 2.5" JJ in that hole but that doesn't relieve my interest in whether people have tried it and broken it off.

 

[mrblaine]

I do not think the cast mount itself is the issue it it the size of the joint that can be installed in it that is the problem.

Exactly. The cast mount is more than strong enough. It is the durability of everything else that is highly questionable.

 

[mrblaine]

If we assume the cast mount itself is sufficiently strong, what about the little factory bushing, JJ, MC or whatever will fit in there? That piece, both ends of the arm, is being asked to do more than it used to.

I do know a guy who did the "factory 3 link". I recall the issue he had was with the axle side bushing not living long. And this was with trailer queen.

I suspect with enough motivation I could derive a method to install an FK spherical bearing in the cast hole. Just not sure why I want to be that motivated.

 

[Blackjack]

Exactly. The cast mount is more than strong enough. It is the durability of everything else that is highly questionable.

I suppose if you are bored enough and do not care about NVH you could make a uniball work.

 

[mrblaine]

I suppose if you are bored enough and do not care about NVH you could make a uniball work.

We posted the same answer at the same time. NVH would not be an issue.

 

[motomick76]

IIRC, redrilling the lower mounts with the Nth bracket requires the use of their upper relocation too, or the stinger setup. That could be the source of your issues in the rear.

I'd put the control arms back to factory location until you have your uppers figured out.

I did redrill and lower the mount the 3/4 or 1" of the nth degree. Made no difference in how it handles. I knew this going into it. Next week I will have parts to raise upper axle mounts approx 1.5 - 2". I am hoping combining these two will help alleviate how it handles.

 

[motomick76]

Blonde moment - NVH?