In Ethiopia fan issue persists but mechanics say with elevation that it's normal here

[Jeep in Ethiopia]

Hello hive mind.

In a previous post I solicited your help in trying to figure out why my fan is running continuously. It's been a 7 month saga with no fixes yet. Very difficult when I'm not a mechanic and the mechanics here don't know jeeps and parts are difficult to come by and covid puts a wrinkle into everything (especially shipping things).

The American Embassy mechanic (the 5th mechanic to work on the jeep), who has experience only with a Jeep Liberty, says that because of the elevation here (2nd highest capital in the world at 7726 feet) that most people remove the thermostat and/or remove the temp sensor so that the fans run continuously. They say it's unique to this country and particularly this city.

My question is this: if we never get to the bottom of this and my fan forever runs continuously, what is the danger? What are the consequences to the engine if the fan runs continuously and I go on a trip (which I do frequently) that requires 8+ hours of driving. The mechanics here seem to suggest there is absolutely no problem with this (other than no heat when the thermostat is taken out; but we don't ever need the heater in this country).

Lastly, if we eliminate all other possibilities, and it's the computer module that has to be replaced, how do I do that? Do I really have to remove it and send it into a Jeep dealership? That would be an enormous nightmare for me here in Ethiopia.


FYI: It's a 2006 Wrangler TJ 2.4L.

 

[MountaineerTom]

I don't know much about the 2.4 and electric fans, but I'm sure someone here can help with that.

I don't quite understand why you'd remove the thermostat. I understand it's hot there, but the thermostat, when operating properly, keeps your engine at optimal temp. I'd rethink that about not running a thermostat.

As far as the PCM, @Wranglerfix has a good reputation around here with PCM for TJ's. I don't know if he can help you or if shipping to Ethiopia is possible for him, but he should see this and can comment on that part.

Wish I was of more help, good luck.

 

[MountaineerTom]

Oh, and as far as the danger of your fan running constantly, I would think just unnecessary wear and tear on it leading to a shorter lifespan for it.

 

[Wranglerfix]

@Jeep in Ethiopia Please send me your vin number to check build and software for your Jeep. Is it an automatic or manual?

I will get back to you shortly about the fan and altitude once I double check with my technician.

 

[Jramos013]

A fan running all the time is not right. It should only come on when needed. The mechanic that told you to remove the thermostat and that is normal doesn't know crap about cars. I live in the Caribbean where is hot (85-105F) and humid (40-80%)all year round. Some mechanics here say the same crap and justify it with “we live in a hot weather country” THAT IS NOT TRUE!!! The thermostat regulates the vehicle temp regardless off outside temp. If the temp sensor is remove how is the pcm going to know when to turn on or off the fan. Don’t let anyone remove any sensor.


I would start by connecting a obd2 scanner, maybe theres a bad sensor somewhere. Also I believe the 2.4 has a fan controller somewhere, maybe it got damage.

 

[mrblaine]

I understand it's hot there, but the thermostat, when operating properly, keeps your engine at optimal temp.

No, the thermostat does not keep the engine at the optimal temp. It controls only the minimum temp that the engine runs at. If the engine tries to run too cool, the thermostat restricts flow to keep the coolant in the block longer. Once the temp is high enough, then the thermostat allows more flow into the radiator.

Thermostat controls the low side, cooling system efficiency controls the high side through capacity and heat extraction.

 

[mrblaine]

Hello hive mind.

In a previous post I solicited your help in trying to figure out why my fan is running continuously. It's been a 7 month saga with no fixes yet. Very difficult when I'm not a mechanic and the mechanics here don't know jeeps and parts are difficult to come by and covid puts a wrinkle into everything (especially shipping things).

The American Embassy mechanic (the 5th mechanic to work on the jeep), who has experience only with a Jeep Liberty, says that because of the elevation here (2nd highest capital in the world at 7726 feet) that most people remove the thermostat and/or remove the temp sensor so that the fans run continuously. They say it's unique to this country and particularly this city.

My question is this: if we never get to the bottom of this and my fan forever runs continuously, what is the danger? What are the consequences to the engine if the fan runs continuously and I go on a trip (which I do frequently) that requires 8+ hours of driving. The mechanics here seem to suggest there is absolutely no problem with this (other than no heat when the thermostat is taken out; but we don't ever need the heater in this country).

Lastly, if we eliminate all other possibilities, and it's the computer module that has to be replaced, how do I do that? Do I really have to remove it and send it into a Jeep dealership? That would be an enormous nightmare for me here in Ethiopia.


FYI: It's a 2006 Wrangler TJ 2.4L.

You need to sell the Jeep and do the research to find a vehicle that the locals understand and can fix. Given what you've posted so far about that god forsaken shithole you live in, I'm not sure that will be much more than a moped.

 

[Jeep in Ethiopia]

Thanks for the feedback, guys. I'll respond to everyone here.

* Most cars here (in a city of 7 million people) run without thermostats. It's about elevation and temp. I'm working with the official mechanic of the American Embassy (and the four other mechanics I've worked with here, along with laypersons who work on their vehicles, confirm this approach).

*@Wranglerfix, I'll get that to you tomorrow. How do I message you directly with this? I'm new to this forum. I looked up your profile but can't seem to find a way to private message.

*sell the jeep? No way. It grows in value every day, running or not. Here vehicles go up in value over time due to duty paid and many other factors. I'll profit another $1,000 per year the longer I hang on to it. Plus, it's the reason I get to do the most amazing, wild things in this country (when it's running).

*Yeah, I figured running continuously was only bad on the fan itself.

*Haha, I don't live in a shithole. It's one of the top 5 countries in the world for me of all the countries I've been to or lived in. It's not so much a secret anymore, though, as everyone on this planet is trying to invest here--it's the last frontier of truly opportunistic investing. A country never colonized in it's entire history. A country ripe with potential and resources (and now the dam). A country 1/3 the population of the US and growing as an unprecedented rate.

*We already ran the scanner in each electrical point. I've replaced the relays (both) and we've tested the old and new relays, the ports, and everything. Nothing obvious at this point. I have a temp sensor being shipped to me and will arrive in 4 weeks. We will replace that first next before we start really getting serious about the computer.

 

[RMETeeJay]

Have any of these people hooked up an OBD II code reader? That information would be helpful to us.

Do not listen to anyone who tells you to remove cooling system components; especially the engine coolant temperature sensor (ECT). That will do more harm than good.

Before you replace the PCM, I'd replace the ECT. That is one of the inputs that allows the PCM to kick the fan on and off (it also looks at whether or not you are running the A/C). There are two relays on the fan for high and low speeds.

Someone posted that the manual is not very helpful for the 2.4L radiator fan. I would PM them because they may be able to help you out:

Radiator Fan

 

[CodaMan]

... god forsaken shithole you live in, I'm not sure that will be much more than a moped.

Wow! Have you been to Ethiopia? I've been there several times and it is far from a shithole. There are beautiful places with some of the nicest people you could ever meet. If you really want to see shitholes look no further than many areas of this country and some that are within an hours drive of you.

 

[Jeep in Ethiopia]

Have any of these people hooked up an OBD II code reader? That information would be helpful to us.

Do not listen to anyone who tells you to remove cooling system components; especially the engine coolant temperature sensor (ECT). That will do more harm than good.

Before you replace the PCM, I'd replace the ECT. That is one of the inputs that allows the PCM to kick the fan on and off (it also looks at whether or not you are running the A/C). There are two relays on the fan for high and low speeds.

Someone posted that the manual is not very helpful for the 2.4L radiator fan. I would PM them because they may be able to help you out:

Radiator Fan

Thank you.

I have run these codes in my other forum and shared it with folks. I'll add the new codes from today here as well. The other forum post concluded something about an open circuit but couldn't really help me beyond that.

Thanks for the tip on the cooling system components.

I don't know what an ETC is but I can pass that info on to my mechanic. I already replaced both relays. Nothing changed; same fan behavior.

Anyway, thanks for replying. See attached codes.

 

[Jeep in Ethiopia]

Wow! Have you been to Ethiopia? I've been there several times and it is far from a shithole. There are beautiful places with some of the nicest people you could ever meet. If you really want to see shitholes look no further than many areas of this country and some that are within an hours drive of you.

You have to go no further than my channel (www.youtube.com/travelingteachr) to see how absolutely brilliant this country is! I love Ethiopia.

 

[mrblaine]

Wow! Have you been to Ethiopia? I've been there several times and it is far from a shithole. There are beautiful places with some of the nicest people you could ever meet. If you really want to see shitholes look no further than many areas of this country and some that are within an hours drive of you.

God forsaken shithole refers to the lack of mechanical knowledge and basic ability to diagnose and solve this issue along with the recommendation to fully defeat the proper function of the cooling system because the resident mechanics are ignorant. It doesn't matter how good something is or how great where it is, if you can't maintain it, can't get it worked on, can't use it as intended, and can't easily get parts for it, then it is a useless piece of shit in a god forsaken shithole.

 

[mrblaine]

You have to go no further than my channel (www.youtube.com/travelingteachr) to see how absolutely brilliant this country is! I love Ethiopia.

Your Jeep is going to strand you in the back country and the lions are going to eat you for breakfast.

 

[Jeep in Ethiopia]

God forsaken shithole refers to the lack of mechanical knowledge and basic ability to diagnose and solve this issue along with the recommendation to fully defeat the proper function of the cooling system because the resident mechanics are ignorant. It doesn't matter how good something is or how great where it is, if you can't maintain it, can't get it worked on, can't use it as intended, and can't easily get parts for it, then it is a useless piece of shit in a god forsaken shithole.

There's almost no jeeps in the country (I've seen 3 and I've driven a significant portion of this huge country). Their knowledge of Toyota's, Lada's, and a few other popular makes in this country is superb. They're just not familiar with vehicles they've never seen.

If I get stranded, I can walk with the wild lions due to my training. That photo for my profile was taken here and was on foot, guarded by a group of soldiers. I'd prefer to get stranded; it would be a dream.

 

[Jramos013]

If elevation was an issue, folks living in colorado or in the Andes in South America wouldn't be able to run their Jeeps. Or folks in the desert for that matter. Please don't fall into that nonsense. You don’t need to modify your cooling system to compensate for hot weather. The Tj is design to run at 210F, not less. Removing the thermostat, with time, you will damage your cylinder walls due to running the engine cooler than OE specs.

When looking at the obd2 codes, it shows the fan control module is malfunctioning. I would start by getting a new fan controller along with the temp sensor and 195 degree thermostat. That might fix your problem.

Also in the scanner they label the jeep as a Dakota, the model should be wrangler or tj, not sure if that has an effect in how the codes are read.

Thanks for the feedback, guys. I'll respond to everyone here.

* Most cars here (in a city of 7 million people) run without thermostats. It's about elevation and temp. I'm working with the official mechanic of the American Embassy (and the four other mechanics I've worked with here, along with laypersons who work on their vehicles, confirm this approach)

 

[CodaMan]

God forsaken shithole refers to the lack of mechanical knowledge and basic ability to diagnose and solve this issue along with the recommendation to fully defeat the proper function of the cooling system because the resident mechanics are ignorant. It doesn't matter how good something is or how great where it is, if you can't maintain it, can't get it worked on, can't use it as intended, and can't easily get parts for it, then it is a useless piece of shit in a god forsaken shithole.

That I would agree with, It just wasn't how your comment read.

 

[freedom_in_4low]

The American Embassy mechanic (the 5th mechanic to work on the jeep), who has experience only with a Jeep Liberty, says that because of the elevation here (2nd highest capital in the world at 7726 feet) that most people remove the thermostat and/or remove the temp sensor so that the fans run continuously. They say it's unique to this country and particularly this city.

The idea of bypassing the sensor and removing the thermostat is utter nonsense. I can't say that it's not commonly done there, but if it is, it's by people that don't know what they're doing or are too lazy to figure out the real problems with their cooling systems.

Even ignoring elevation and climate - the fan runs when it needs to. If it's hot enough to need the fan, and everything is working, the fan will come on. Same with the thermostat. The only thing accomplished by forcing it to always-on would be to slow down how quickly it reaches operating temp. If there were conditions that the cooling system legitimately couldn't handle, then it would still overheat, you may just have an extra 4 minutes before it happens. But if it doesn't overheat with a always-on fan and no thermostat, then it's not going to overheat with a thermostat and a fan that runs when it should.

To address the environmental conditions - I live at 7300 feet and 100% of my low speed wheeling is higher than that. Based on wikipedia's climate data for the capital of Ethiopia, the temperatures are fairly similar (if anything, it's hotter here).

No one in Colorado is hacking up their cooling system to make the fan run constantly.

 

[mrblaine]

That I would agree with, It just wasn't how your comment read.

I've spent several hours going over the wiring diagrams and diagnosing this issue long distance but we can't get any reliable feedback on what is going on. We want to help get it fixed but we are only as good as the basic knowledge of the folks touching the rig and that is practically nil. Not a judgement, observation.

 

[mrblaine]

The idea of bypassing the sensor and removing the thermostat is utter nonsense. I can't say that it's not commonly done there, but if it is, it's by people that don't know what they're doing or are too lazy to figure out the real problems with their cooling systems.

Even ignoring elevation and climate - the fan runs when it needs to. If it's hot enough to need the fan, and everything is working, the fan will come on. Same with the thermostat. The only thing accomplished by forcing it to always-on would be to slow down how quickly it reaches operating temp. If there were conditions that the cooling system legitimately couldn't handle, then it would still overheat, you may just have an extra 4 minutes before it happens. But if it doesn't overheat with a always-on fan and no thermostat, then it's not going to overheat with a thermostat and a fan that runs when it should.

To address the environmental conditions - I live at 7300 feet and 100% of my low speed wheeling is higher than that. Based on wikipedia's climate data for the capital of Ethiopia, the temperatures are fairly similar (if anything, it's hotter here).

View attachment 184679

No one in Colorado is hacking up their cooling system to make the fan run constantly.

On that system which has the fan from the factory, the diagrams show that it defaults to the fan on when the temp sensor dies or is out of spec. That has to be diagnosed to see if it follows back to a defect in the PCM that is causing the fans to stay on due to what is sees as a faulty sensor or defective wiring. The system needs some basic diagnostics and that is very hard to get from here. Just reading the codes isn't likely going to do it because those could also be created by a bad PCM or chafed wiring harness and there is nothing wrong with the cooling system.