Novak Conversions Jeep Wrangler TJ engine mounts

Theories why the Rubicon went with D44s vs upgraded Dana 30/35?

Was the Dana 44 already in production? Tooling up to make something new is expensive... so they probably went with the D44since it met their requirements.
If project managment has tought me anything in the automotive engineering sector.

Jeep sent Dana their requirements for the Rubicon and Dana built/engineered the solution. The solution being the Dana 44 differential using the smaller Dana 30/35 tubes and outer parts.
 
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If project managment has tought me anything in the automotive engineering sector.

Jeep sent Dana their requirements for the Rubicon and Dana built/engineered the solution. The solution being the Dana 44 differential using the smaller Dana 30/35 tubes and outer parts.
Yup, simple economics. Dana was already producing the center section of the 44 for other applications. The 35 was getting smaller usage every year, even Ford was moving away. So merging the 35 outers with the 44 centers is pragmatic to say the least. I'm surprised the jk uses a version of the 30 in the front, would have been reasonable to offer open 44s on everything but the Rubi.

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Usually, its something as simple as the 2 above.

Want to know why a corp did something? Either to save costs or generate revenue.

There usually isn't a Marketing conspiracy, or sales trick involved.
 
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why do you think Jeep just didnt upgrade the shafts in the Dana 35?

Why do you think they steered away from the 35 completly and went with Dana 44's?
Honestly, if you stick with a stock TJ, the stock 30/35 is plenty strong. The Super 35 etc is the aftermarket response to lifts and 35s they sell.
 
My theory......
2 options for a upgrade....super charged 4cyl engine or...... 6 cylinder engine. On the face value most people would want the 6 cylinder. Assuming that the 4 cyl could put out the same HP as the 6 cyl.

The same thing could be the thoughts behind the dana 44 upgrade. It just sounds like a better deal.

This is all assuming that both end products are equal enough.
 
Honestly, if you stick with a stock TJ, the stock 30/35 is plenty strong. The Super 35 etc is the aftermarket response to lifts and 35s they sell.
Right, but why didnt Jeep use the super 35 (Read: Upgrade the 35; since its, "plenty strong,"for the Jeep) for the rubi? They instead went with the Dana 44. This was the question I started this thread with....
 
Right, but why didnt Jeep use the super 35 (Read: Upgrade the 35; since its, "plenty strong,"for the Jeep) for the rubi? They instead went with the Dana 44. This was the question I started this thread with....
Pretty sure the answer is "cuz, they wanted next level capabilities" the 35 had proven to take a lot, but they wanted lockers and they didn't really have many for the 35.

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Right, but why didnt Jeep use the super 35 (Read: Upgrade the 35; since its, "plenty strong,"for the Jeep) for the rubi? They instead went with the Dana 44. This was the question I started this thread with....


Was the super 35 even a thing back then?

If the Dana 44 was in production.. it would be cheaper to run with something that exists and meet spec.. than to design or modify a new item.

The super 35 could of been an option, but the Dana 44 probably had a better value and return.
 
Back to my original point.

You get to choose a super 35 or a dana 44. Price is the same. What do you choose?
 
If the Dana 44 was in production.. it would be cheaper to run with something that exists and meet spec.. than to design or modify a new item.
The Dana 44 with Dana 35 tubes and Dana 35 outers didnt exist, Dana had to modify both the Dana 35 and Dana 44 to make it work. So I would say it was a, "new item," that requried designinh and modifying.

I would agree with you if they used a 100% Dana 44, but for some reason they retained Dana 35 parts which is very odd to me.

Not trying to fight, just talking theory.
 
Axles are engineered to support a given weight. A Dana 30 would support less weight than a Dana 44.
 
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but why didnt Jeep use the super 35
Because when everything is locked up and you are aiming for the top of the waterfall..... the 44 is what Jeep engineers figured you would need.

Before the Rubi no Wrangler came from the factory with lockers. Lockers and putting ALL the torque to one tire was a game changer. Hence 44s on both ends.
 
The Dana 44 with Dana 35 tubes and Dana 35 outers didnt exist, Dana had to modify both the Dana 35 and Dana 44 to make it work. So I would say it was a, "new item," that requried designinh and modifying.

I would agree with you if they used a 100% Dana 44, but for some reason they retained Dana 35 parts which is very odd to me.

Not trying to fight, just talking theory.

No worries... not interpreting it that way.

Maybe they had a glut of Dana 35 parts with a declining forecast. Idk.

Usually these decisions are pretty analytical.
 
Axles are engineered to support a given weight. A Dana 30 would support less weight than a Dana 44.
no. cuz the Rubi 44s use 35 tubes and ends. Tubes support the weight. difs transfer the energy.

The 30/35 has no problem with weight. So keeping the tubes and ends is a great engineering decision.... keeping the total axle weight down. No need to use the same tubes and ends used to support an F250 with a V8.

The only upgrade needed was to handle ALL the 4.0L torque thru any single wheel when all locked up.
 
The Dana 44 with Dana 35 tubes and Dana 35 outers didnt exist, Dana had to modify both the Dana 35 and Dana 44 to make it work. So I would say it was a, "new item," that requried designinh and modifying.

I would agree with you if they used a 100% Dana 44, but for some reason they retained Dana 35 parts which is very odd to me.

Not trying to fight, just talking theory.
This discussion centers around the position that the Dana 35 is problematic. If anyone is a designer and or product developer, they would be ecstatic to come up with a product as successful as the Dana 35. It was used in the early YJ and continued until at least the end of the TJ and was also under the ZJ and XJ. That is over a million units.

When I first got on the internet, I saw all the grief about the 35 and how much of a shit product it was and you were a second class citizen if you owned one. I have a friend who worked at several Jeep dealerships as a mechanic over the years on the line who installed the factory lift kits as well as the rest of the stuff a mechanic does. I was chatting with him one day showing off my new found knowledge about Jeeps and Dana 35's, I mentioned that it must suck having to repair them all the time. He told me that they almost never worked on them for anything except a customer pay gear swap. I was astounded at this and started digging into it. The more I dug, the more clear it became that the much maligned Dana 35 reputation is due to an exceptionally vocal and exceptionally small minority of Jeep owners.

The Jeep engineers also know the same, they aren't stupid and there is or was a fairly large contingent of them who own Jeeps and go wheeling. It isn't hard to figure they wanted something under the Rubi that the public who would generally talk about the product would recognize as being good, so they chose the venerable 44. That is further evidenced by the fact that when they built the rear axle under the JK Rubi, they called it a 44 even though it has almost nothing in common with one.

There is also reference to the TJ front and rear 44's being fake. The problem with that is there is no such thing as a fake TJ 44. There are many different versions of them, all spec'd differently, all for different applications. The closest thing to a fake 44 is the one under the back of the JK since it doesn't use a 44 gear set or the common 30 spline shafts.

The main reason for them front and rear is development cost. Essentially the same locker, same locker pump, same gear set and bang for the buck. "Dana 44's Front and Rear" has a lot more pizazz than anything else that potential Jeep buyers would recognize. That and the front 44 under a Jeep was nothing new in the Rubi. The South American XJ has a HP version of it that is nearly identical in all aspects with the exception of no locker and it is HP.

Folks don't care about the rest. I posit that premise based on the fact that Currie's #1 all time selling front axle is their HP Dana 60 with TJ outers. I consider that to be probably one of the dumbest products you can sling under a TJ and like the 35, it is phenomenally successful. Why is it successful? Because there are so many broken front gear sets or because folks want to tell everyone they have a Dana 60 under their rig? Also, since we might struggle with real and fake again, is it a fake 60 or a real 60?

I'm not aware of any TJ Dana 44's with Dana 35 outers front or rear.
 
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The chromeolly shafts of the super 35 are stronger then the carbon steel 44 and the Carbon steel in the 8.8 which is why the super 35 is a better option then a stock 8.8 with brackets. But the super 35 would not have aided the marketing team. Today if I could, I would choose a super 44 best of both ....
Back to my original point.

You get to choose a super 35 or a dana 44. Price is the same. What do you choose?

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this

"it became clear that the much maligned Dana 35 reputation is due to an exceptionally vocal and exceptionally small minority of Jeep owners" ....

Some guys can break anything. They tend to be a small vocal minority.

I ran 33s thru 3.07s which must be the worst kind of torque loading, 300K miles and never touched the Dana 30/Dana 35.
 
This discussion centers around the position that the Dana 35 is problematic. If anyone is a designer and or product developer, they would be ecstatic to come up with a product as successful as the Dana 35. It was used in the early YJ and continued until at least the end of the TJ and was also under the ZJ and XJ. That is over a million units.

If the Dana 35 was that successful, imagine the number of units sold and the the sense of pride behind designing not only the Gen 1 Dana 44 but also the Gen 2 Dana 44. Those numbers sold would be something serious.

There is also reference to the TJ front and rear 44's being fake. The problem with that is there is no such thing as a fake TJ 44. There are many different versions of them, all spec'd differently, all for different applications. The closest thing to a fake 44 is the one under the back of the JK since it doesn't use a 44 gear set or the common 30 spline shafts.

I used the wrong word here ("Outers"), correct me if I am wrong but the TJ/LJ Rubicon reuses the Dana 30 knuckles, Dana 30 brakes, and Dana 30 unit bearings. Im guessing it uses the same outer axles..? In that fact, The TJ/LJ Rubicon Dana 44 front axle shares more parts with a Dana 30 than a Dana 44.
Maybe my info is wrong, I also was under the impression that the Jeep TJ/LJ Rubicon Dana 44 axle tubes are Dana 30 axle tubes. They measure the exact same dont they?

Wouldn't that be more closley resembing a "fake Dana 44?" I dont want to give it that name, nor am I trying to justify it, just trying to see if I am following along with your thoughts. The JK spec'd Gen2 Dana 44 is exactly that, a Gen2 Dana 44 that uses Dana 44 1/2 ton parts. It's not much of a stretch to say it also uses 1 ton spec parts in some areas.
 
Folks don't care about the rest. I posit that premise based on the fact that Currie's #1 all time selling front axle is their HP Dana 60 with TJ outers. I consider that to be probably one of the dumbest products you can sling under a TJ and like the 35, it is phenomenally successful.

I would agree, just because something is popular or successful doesnt mean it is a good idea or a great product for a Jeep build.

Perfect takeaway considering what some people purchase for the wranglers.
 
Novak Conversions Jeep Wrangler TJ engine mounts