EV thread

[BlueC]

Of course cost per mile effects every driver. Total cost of driving includes all those things plus maintenance and mileage

That's a hard calculation/realization to grasp for the general public who has no real accounting need of those micro cost. You should try explaining to someone the cost of tires and brakes on a per mile bases and watch them glaze. My work miles are an annual tax deduction, plus I need to know where I can trim fat and if it is actually worth trimming. In my previous statement I said I run Civics and they cost about $0.25 per mile. I should mention that I only by used vehicles 5-10 years old because I refuse to eat the first 5 years of depreciation, so my actual cost are lower than with a new car.

Knowing that kind of information can be helpful for everyone. When our first kid was born the only 4 door vehicle we had was my truck, so my wife started driving it as the baby hauler. Knowing the numbers and what I expected from gas prices, I figured out that buying her a 4 door Civic for $7k would pay for itself in about 3.5 years, then reduce our actual fleet cost, which it did. Of course the second kid banged-up those numbers a bit and magically made that Civic "too small" so it had to be replaced with a Pilot.

 

[Zorba]

View attachment 660939

Taking a page from the Ram playbook, Ford says it will make the next generation of its F-150 Lightning pickup an extended-range hybrid, giving the electric truck more range and greater towing capability.

In doing so, the pure electric Lightning as we currently know it is dead. The automaker has already ceased production—Ford is using the Rouge plant to make F-Series with internal combustion engines now in what was originally intended be a temporary move.

We now know the permanent move is to shift to an extended-range electric vehicle, a hybrid known as an EREV where the gas engine acts solely as a generator. It will eventually be built in Dearborn, but Ford is not providing timing on when it will be available to purchase.

https://www.motortrend.com/news/electric-ford-f-150-lightning-replacement-extended-range-hybrid-erev

Ah, a series hybrid. Now use a diesel engine and you'll have something.

 

[speeding_infraction]

I need something F350 sized.

I haven't seen any attempts to electrify that category yet. You could go bigger...

View attachment 660952

Edison motors and Deboss garage are developing a diesel-electric hybrid right now, and they've delivered.
https://edisonmotors.ca/trucks/edison-pickup-kit/

 

[BlueC]

Edison motors and Deboss garage are developing a diesel-electric hybrid right now, and they've delivered.
https://edisonmotors.ca/trucks/edison-pickup-kit/

I've been watching their stuff here and there over the last few years. I like the dude and his stated goals/business. I hope he actually makes a dent since he seem to be individual minded.

 

[speeding_infraction]

I've been watching their stuff here and there over the last few years. I like the dude and his stated goals/business. I hope he actually makes a dent since he seem to be individual minded.

In a video recently he talked about an investor he turned down because they bragged about buying a medicine company and taking the price from $50 to $1000 just to make more money. The people who needed the medicine had to have it or they would die.

 

[speeding_infraction]

In a video recently he talked about an investor he turned down because they bragged about buying a medicine company and taking the price from $50 to $1000 just to make more money. The people who needed the medicine had to have it or they would die.

Found the video:

 

[BlueC]

Found the video:

I wonder if it was the "investor" who bought the EpiPen and jacked prices sky high.

Looks like they might have finally caught some justice from it.

$264 Million Settlement in EpiPen Price Gouging Litigation​

Minding Your Business Blog on July 29, 2022
https://www.proskauer.com/blog/264-million-settlement-in-epipen-price-gouging-litigation

 

[speeding_infraction]

I wonder if it was the "investor" who bought the EpiPen adn jacked prices sky high.

View attachment 660997

Looks like they might have finally caught some justice from it.

$264 Million Settlement in EpiPen Price Gouging Litigation​

Minding Your Business Blog on July 29, 2022
https://www.proskauer.com/blog/264-million-settlement-in-epipen-price-gouging-litigation

Interesting, I wonder if that was the guy.

Anyone who invests in healthcare is the scum of the earth.

 

[BlueC]

Anyone who invests in healthcare is the scum of the earth.

I know what you mean, but I think I'd change that to anyone who profits excessively from healthcare investments is scum. I 100% want healthcare investment and I expect reasonable/low profit to incentivise that investment.

The EpiPen guy was/is a vulture. He jacked that price up excessively high, really quick, then did some interviews bragging about his profit margins. I was working with a guy who carried one during that time. His price went from something like $50 per unit to nearly $1,000 because his insurance dropped that coverage.

 

[Apparition]

Nice lil 20 billion dollar mistake...

It was a write down that included anticipated future EV profits for cancelled lines.

 

[Woodrow]

Edison motors and Deboss garage are developing a diesel-electric hybrid right now, and they've delivered.
https://edisonmotors.ca/trucks/edison-pickup-kit/

So far Ram is the only one like this that's close to market in the new vehicle arena (https://www.ramtrucks.com/electric/1500-rev.html) and its a gas motor (generator) in a half ton. Using a diesel as the generator in a one ton seems like a winner for people who use their trucks to haul over long distances.

 

[BlueC]

So far Ram is the only one like this that's close to market in the new vehicle arena (https://www.ramtrucks.com/electric/1500-rev.html) and its a gas motor (generator) in a half ton. Using a diesel as the generator in a one ton seems like a winner for people who use their trucks to haul over long distances.

While those types of hybrids beat the day-to-day use issues of an EV, they still suffer from the end-of-battery-life brick situation.

They need to build these hybrids in a way that allows them to be used even if the battery is dead, otherwise it's still a 10 year expected lifespan vehicle. Looks like a simple solution to me. Put the generator between the engine and standard transmission with a way to engage/disengage the transmission, then run a driveshaft to standard gear driven rear axle, and use an electric motor/transaxle up front.

 

[Woodrow]

While those types of hybrids beat the day-to-day use issues of an EV, they still suffer from the end-of-battery-life brick situation.

View attachment 661003

They need to build these hybrids in a way that allows them to be used even if the battery is dead, otherwise it's still a 10 year expected lifespan vehicle. Looks like a simple solution to me. Put the generator between the engine and standard transmission with a way to engage/disengage the transmission, then run a driveshaft to standard gear driven rear axle, and use an electric motor/transaxle up front.

I guess I don't see battery replacement as a "brick" situation necessarily. But then I don't know what the real world battery replacement cost/availability/difficulty could be for this type of vehicle. I do know that diesel locomotives and ocean going cargo ships have been around for around 100 years and that 2 whole drive trains is a lot of complexity. Also the EV with its own on board generator seems to solve one of my biggest complaints about EVs which is range.

 

[BlueC]

I guess I don't see battery replacement as a "brick" situation necessarily. But then I don't know what the real world battery replacement cost/availability/difficulty could be for this type of vehicle.

I don't know for something like that truck, but I can tell you 2 real world things I've seen;

1 - In my market an old hybrid near the expected end of battery life list/sells for the same price or less than a comparable salvage title ICE vehicle. For example, if the market value of average ICE vehicle is $10K, and a salvage title version is going for $5K, the old hybrid version will list/sell for $5K or less.

2 - A cousin of mine owns/operates a garage and he took on a hybrid battery swap job a few years ago, I think in a hybrid Accord (that or a BMW, he typically works on Hondas and BMWs). I don't remember the actual cost breakdown, but I do remember the cost of a new battery was more than just buying another car. They wound up going with a certified used battery, he had to disassemble the entire interior of the car, and they had to pay a factory "certified" tech to drive from Charlotte (over an hour drive) to do the battery work. In all the cost of repair for the customer was around $8,000, which was basically what the car would have been worth after the repair. So far that is the only battery swap my cousin has done. He said he learned a lot from that one experience, and that is not a repair that could be done at home or by a "shade-tree" guy.

 

[Woodrow]

I don't know for something like that truck, but I can tell you 2 real world things I've seen;

1 - In my market an old hybrid near the expected end of battery life list/sells for the same price or less than a comparable salvage title ICE vehicle. For example, if the market value of average ICE vehicle is $10K, and a salvage title version is going for $5K, the old hybrid version will list/sell for $5K or less.

2 - A cousin of mine owns/operates a garage and he took on a hybrid battery swap job a few years ago, I think in a hybrid Accord (that or a BMW, he typically works on Hondas and BMWs). I don't remember the actual cost breakdown, but I do remember the cost of a new battery was more than just buying another car. They wound up going with a certified used battery, he had to disassemble the entire interior of the car, and they had to pay a factory "certified" tech to drive from Charlotte (over an hour drive) to do the battery work. In all the cost of repair for the customer was around $8,000, which was basically what the car would have been worth after the repair. So far that is the only battery swap my cousin has done. He said he learned a lot from that one experience, and that is not a repair that could be done at home or by a "shade-tree" guy.

That's surprising but not. Looking at it from the 50,000 ft perspective, it seems like you could design an easy swap system. You know, 6 bolts and a plug and you drop the whole thing out and then install is the reverse and maybe a software flash. But what do I know...

 

[srimes]

That's surprising but not. Looking at it from the 50,000 ft perspective, it seems like you could design an easy swap system. You know, 6 bolts and a plug and you drop the whole thing out and then install is the reverse and maybe a software flash. But what do I know...

Things are evolving quickly. I saw a youtube vid of someone replacing the volt battery at home in the driveway.

 

[BlueC]

That's surprising but not. Looking at it from the 50,000 ft perspective, it seems like you could design an easy swap system. You know, 6 bolts and a plug and you drop the whole thing out and then install is the reverse and maybe a software flash. But what do I know...

If they figure out a way to make replacement cost reasonable, or even create a quick change type setup, then the EV will likely become truly viable and competitive within the market.

 

[BlueC]

Things are evolving quickly. I saw a youtube vid of someone replacing the volt battery at home in the driveway.

How big are they and what was involved? The battery my cousin did weighted somewhere in the 1,000-1,500 lbs range and has something like a 1,000 volt connection to deal with, which is why the tech had to be called in. Something about a capacitor or something that had to be discharged in a certain way or he could have been zapped, and we don't play like that.

 

[Woodrow]

If they figure out a way to make replacement cost reasonable, or even create a quick change type setup, then the EV will likely become truly viable and competitive within the market.

Well, that and 500mi+ real world range.

 

[srimes]

How big are they and what was involved? The battery my cousin did weighted somewhere in the 1,000-1,500 lbs range and has something like a 1,000 volt connection to deal with, which is why the tech had to be called in. Something about a capacitor or something that had to be discharged in a certain way or he could have been zapped, and we don't play like that.

Yeah they need to be handled correctly.