What lessons learned did Jeep incorporate on each generation going forward from the TJ?

[Chris]

I've always had a deep interest in economics and at a basic level you think, supply/demand will just sort this out. I learned a bit about the way the dealership side works, and I'm shocked anyone at all will work in the field. It's fairly well known the dealers make their money on maintenance, not the sale. It's less understood that warranties are equivalent to healthcare insurance. It's probably even less well known how the mechanics get paid. And if you know these 3 things, you'd be surprised anyone is left in the mechanic trade outside the armed forces.

#1 Mechanics get paid flat rate for a repair based on a book rate time estimated by the manufacturer's engineers.
#2 They get paid half this rate for warranty work (mfg warranty, not 3rd party).
#3 When the mechanics consistently get faster at the warranty work, the mfg cuts the book rate time down to this new time. And the downward spiral continues.

Then throw in a rusty example. Or some other annomaly. Those of us who wrench on our own jeeps know sometime things don't go to plan. Remember they say the dealers are making their money on maintenance. You don't see many mechanics roll up in new Maserattis or Grand Wagoneers.

Then consider the moral hazard and additional paperwork/administrative costs the aftermarket warranty creates, just like the doctors office. And they're negotiating down what they'll pay off a discount from rack rates. Which is cutting into the dealer's margin. So how does the dealer react? They hike the rack rates up on the uninsured average Joe to preserve their margin on the increased business going to warrany claims, that increasingly they're pushing to customers who don't have $1k in an emergency funds. The downward spiral continues.

So have you become your own doctor yet? Setting your own bones? Doing your own colonoscopy? Self-service appendectomy?

These businesses are looking more and more alike.

That’s why all the good mechanics work at private shops where they don’t accept warranty work, etc.

Same thing with the good doctors too. I do work for a number of doctors and most of the good owns have left to start their own practices (Direct Primary Care) where they do not accept insurance, only cash. They all rave about how much of a breath of fresh air it is not being tied to insurance and the whole system that is just a gigantic grift.

I didn’t know dealers worked that way, but it makes perfect sense. They’ve adopted that same model as the medical industry which is completely failing.

 

[Gilaguy23]

Last time I took a vehicle to Kennedy meadows above Kernville in Ca I did it with a 65 F100 2wd with a KLR in the back. Made it to the back where the Kern runs thru it. I got some WTF looks from the guys in their 100K rovers and bling wagons. Only scary part was coming down 9 mile to 395 with drum brakes.

 

[Hasselblad]

I have a 2003 TJ Sahara auto with the Dana 44 rear. My son has a 2017 JK 2 door Rubicon.

I know suspension wise most on this forum feel upgrading to longer than stock control arms is better. The disagreement comes from how much longer but most agree longer is better.

I think Jeep paid attention to what TJ owners were doing to upgrade their jeeps capabilities when they designed the JK. Of course the liability lawyers had input into how far they were able to go and still be considered safe. So its a compromise always.

Looking at the control arms on my sons JK it looks like Jeep saw the advantages of what is called mid arm kits here and incorporated that from the factory on the JK. The JL appears to have even slightly longer arms than the JK.

Making the chassis wider each gen probably had to do with liability as the JL Rubicon comes straight from the factory on 33's.

My sons JK Rubicon stock is more capable than my TJ as it has inherent advantages.

I like my TJ. It is capable for what it is and at the time it was introduced an improvement over the previous model.

I just don't know how much I really want to spend to improve it. I can appreciate it for what it is and it's certainly not uncapable.

I think Jeeps next move will be the hurricane 6 in the wrangler to address the shortcomings of the V6 and those should be very popular. Jeeps are numerous around here.

Last week of October I was in a wreck with the rubi, Folks in front of me slammed on their brakes, I managed to stop, the girl behind me... didn't. (see pic) Which pushed me into the rear end of the truck I was behind. I have put so much sweat equity into my TJ that I got a really sick feeling, and fear that even thought very little visible damage was done to the jeep (slight bend in passenger side fender, and the spare pushed into the tailgate, the ARB bumpers are like tanks and shrugged off the hits), it might have a bent frame, screwed up steering (it did slightly), or worse.

So the next couple weeks I gave considerable thought and feelers toward a new (2025) 2-door rubicon. Right off the bat I was faced with 2 shit engine choices, well one choice if I wanted the auto and one if I wanted the manual. I found a couple screaming deals including one with the 35" tire package for a whopping 13% below invoice. Yes, INVOICE. I was fully prepared to sink ~50k into what I felt I might regret (the 2L lawnmower) but hey, would look good... that's what counts, right? /s
(apparently that is all jeep feels folks want any more)

After further thought I ran screaming from that temptation and realized that since the wife finally signed off on the new jeep, imagine what I could do with a fraction of that money on the TJ should it not be as bad as I feared. Fast forward to today when (despite still waiting for the mechanic to get the remaining steering parts for the TJ and install them) I now have an appt for a regear scheduled for next week with a rear engine seal replacement, and a OME suspension spring setup with Ranchos, a Mr Blaine body lift, and Brown Dog 1" MM on the way. Only thing I haven't figured on is new seats or improving the stock ones.

Long story short: new jeeps < the TJ, and despite the additional sweat equity, I will be happy.

 

[Hasselblad]

I really like just how quiet a stock 3.6l jk is compared to a stock 4.0l tj. They creep right along in the woods.

Even with a stock exhaust and cat,my 4.6l stroker is much louder. That's ok though. It just means if i want to get a bunch of pigs i need to haul ass and bring my 300blk ar15

The supersonic rounds do pretty well

Can I come with? If I ever stop working on the TJ I'll have the time to work on reloading for the BLK on the right.

 

[AndyG]

A better thought out answer to the title post-

Jk 2008-2010 - 1. More doors sells more jeeps. You might can start a cult.

2. You can trick people into a really bad V6, especially if you attract a new clientele that has no clue what it is.

3. The Rubicon package adds value

Jk 2011forward -

1. more doors sells more jeeps. The Kool Aid is being requested now. Some how rubber ducks have gotten involved.

2. You can trick people into a newfangled smaller v6 once you scare the crap out them with a 3.8 v6

3. The Rubicon package…..still adds value

JT - a bed on one will sell some.

JL-

1. You can still sell more jeeps with 4 doors.

2. A Rubicon package ……still adds value.

3. A lot of ducks will fit on a JL dash.


Thats about all I got.

 

[GregBelleville]

A better thought out answer to the title post-

Jk 2008-2010 - 1. More doors sells more jeeps. You might can start a cult.

2. You can trick people into a really bad V6, especially if you attract a new clientele that has no clue what it is.

3. The Rubicon package adds value

Jk 2011forward -

1. more doors sells more jeeps. The Kool Aid is being requested now. Some how rubber ducks have gotten involved.

2. You can trick people into a newfangled smaller v6 once you scare the crap out them with a 3.8 v6

3. The Rubicon package…..still adds value

JT - a bed on one will some.

JL-

1. You can still sell more jeeps with 4 doors.

2. A Rubicon package ……still adds value.

3. A lot of ducks will fit on a JL dash.

4. Adding a V8 adds A LOT of value.

Thats about all I got.

 

[RangerTJ]

4. Adding a V8 adds A LOT of value.COST

Updated for accuracy.

 

[AndyG]

4. Adding a V8 adds A LOT of value.

I loved the “we cant do it “ line they held for years, wrinkle zones, etc-

then did it in heartbeat when the competition got tough

I still can’t get over how they go from one extreme to the other-

 

[Irun]

A better thought out answer to the title post-

Jk 2008-2011 - 1. More doors sells more jeeps. You might can start a cult.

2. You can trick people into a really bad V6, especially if you attract a new clientele that has no clue what it is.

3. The Rubicon package adds value

Jk 2012 forward -

1. more doors sells more jeeps. The Kool Aid is being requested now. Some how rubber ducks have gotten involved.

2. You can trick people into a newfangled smaller v6 once you scare the crap out them with a 3.8 v6

3. The Rubicon package…..still adds value

JT - a bed on one will sell some.

JL-

1. You can still sell more jeeps with 4 doors.

2. A Rubicon package ……still adds value.

3. A lot of ducks will fit on a JL dash.


Thats about all I got.

Two minor tweaks!

 

[ColoJeep]

. You can trick people into a newfangled smaller v6 once you scare the crap out them with a 3.8 v6

This just proves , you can trick people into 2 bad V-6's .

As sad as it is , I think I could put up with the 3.8 burning oil and being a dog , a lot more than the 3.6 eating valvetrains and cams . Isn't it amazing that the 60 h.p. Go-devil 4 banger didn't have any of these issues !

 

[lBasket]

This just proves , you can trick people into 2 bad V-6's .

As sad as it is , I think I could put up with the 3.8 burning oil and being a dog , a lot more than the 3.6 eating valvetrains and cams . Isn't it amazing that the 60 h.p. Go-devil 4 banger didn't have any of these issues !

4 bangers are the future

 

[5632]

4 bangers are the future

Only if they have turbos.

 

[lBasket]

Only if they have turbos.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I'm building an NA one

 

[speeding_infraction]

4 bangers are the future

Man I hope not. That's a sad state of life if that's the case

 

[lBasket]

Man I hope not. That's a sad state of life if that's the case

They're fun in very small cars!

But yeah I wouldn't want one in a truck like they're starting to do lol

 

[ColoJeep]

4 bangers are the future

The 196 c.i.d / 3.2 l , International Harvester I - 4 . The old school I-4 big block .

 

[lBasket]

The 196 c.i.d / 3.2 l , International Harvester I - 4 . The old school I-4 big block .

View attachment 658707

Holy moly 87hp! Watch out!

 

[John Cooper]

The 196 c.i.d / 3.2 l , International Harvester I - 4 . The old school I-4 big block .

View attachment 658707

Holy moly 87hp! Watch out!

Talk about a tractor motor.....

 

[ColoJeep]

Holy moly 87hp! Watch out!

That's for the 152 IH 4 banger , the 196 had 102.7 Net h.p. at 4000 r.p.m and 176.1 lb. ft. of net torque at 2000 r.p.m.

 

[TheBoogieman]