AX5 transmission drain plug: How screwed am I? Any creative solutions?

[rickkin]

Noticed my new-to-me 2001 TJ was dripping transmission fluid so I decided to check out what was going on and then take the opportunity to put in new fluid. Upon removing the drain plug from the AX5 manual transmission I discovered the plug had 2 crush washers sandwiched on it. When I pulled the plug out, the one against the bolt head came off with it no problem, but the one pressed against the transmission remained. This is where my problem arose- I could not get this washer unstuck from the transmission body with ANYTHING. It was like the metals had fused. Eventually resorted to brute force with a hammer and chisel. Even that didn’t get it off in one piece- it chipped and bent and ultimately I’ve made a huge mess of mangled soft metal.

The issues:

• I fear that my chisel may have cut into the material of the transmission body in such a way that the plug + crush washer can no longer properly seal
• The plug cannot tighten enough to actually crush the washer, or to reach torque spec- it loosens when continuing to tighten. (I happen to know it was doing this prior to my destruction, so I don't think I caused this part. May have been related to prior leaking too)

See picture- this is at maximum tightness of the bolt. I'm concerned about the gaps and lack of torque on the bolt.

I also now fear that the crush washer against the transmission may not actually have been a crush washer, and was actually just a protruding part of the transmission body. That would be shocking to me though since it appeared to be made of the same soft metal as the crush washer- that was why I felt confident enough to start pulling it off.

So I’m reckoning with the fact that I may have destroyed this. Short of replacing the transmission, any ideas on what I can do to get this workable? I’m open to creative solutions, Flex Seal, and/or redneck magic, I’m all ears. Or if you can confirm I'm SOL, I'd appreciate that too. Jeep is currently sitting without transmission fluid, I’m not feeling confident about filling it back up in this state.

 

[TimV]

JBweld and the last oil change that transmission ever sees?

 

[B1Toad]

https://www.google.com/search?q=exp...AgiwAgHxBaWofsgmI7S7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[Gilaguy23]

https://www.google.com/search?q=exp...AgiwAgHxBaWofsgmI7S7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Exactly. Then buy a bicycle and sell what ever tools you collected.

 

[B1Toad]

The smallest expandable freeze plugs are 3/4" and not knowing the size of the drain hole I was curious if there was anything else available that is smaller and turns out there is. I still like the freeze plug better though if it fits. more secure and more out of harm's way.

https://www.google.com/search?q=universal+repair+oil+drain+plug&sca_esv=da19ebeccc14b1b9&sxsrf=AE3TifNZHY0f545UPaS9mdlXYvBSELsQGQ:1760493911837&ei=VwHvaPHlMpDQkPIP9_nv4Ag&ved=0ahUKEwix7fnxjqWQAxUQKEQIHff8G4wQ4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=universal+repair+oil+drain+plug&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAaAhgCIh91bml2ZXJzYWwgcmVwYWlyIG9pbCBkcmFpbiBwbHVnMgYQABgWGB4yBhAAGBYYHjIGEAAYFhgeMgYQABgWGB4yCxAAGIAEGIYDGIoFMgsQABiABBiGAxiKBTILEAAYgAQYhgMYigUyCxAAGIAEGIYDGIoFMggQABiABBiiBDIIEAAYgAQYogRI-ExQAFj7RXAAeAGQAQCYAdgBoAHWF6oBBjI1LjUuMbgBA8gBAPgBAZgCH6ACohrCAgoQIxiABBgnGIoFwgIEECMYJ8ICCxAAGIAEGJECGIoFwgILEAAYgAQYsQMYgwHCAhEQLhiABBixAxjRAxiDARjHAcICBRAAGIAEwgIFEC4YgATCAgoQABiABBhDGIoFwgIKEC4YgAQYQxiKBcICDhAuGIAEGMcBGI4FGK8BwgIOEC4YgAQYsQMY0QMYxwHCAhMQLhiABBixAxjRAxjHARiKBRgKwgIIEAAYgAQYsQPCAgsQLhiABBixAxiDAcICChAAGIAEGBQYhwLCAg0QABiABBixAxgUGIcCwgIXEAAYgAQYkQIYpgMY-AUYqAMYigUYiwPCAhMQABiABBgUGKYDGIcCGKgDGIsDwgIREC4YgAQYkQIYxwEYigUYrwHCAgsQLhiABBjRAxjHAcICCxAuGIAEGMcBGK8BwgIIEAAYogQYiQWYAwDiAwUSATEgQJIHBzE0LjE2LjGgB4_AArIHBzE0LjE2LjG4B6IawgcHMi0xNC4xN8gH-QE&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

 

[KennethS]

JBweld and the last oil change that transmission ever sees?

There’s no pressure in there, so maybe instead of JB Weld some oil resistant silicone?

 

[macleanflood]

Can you file or grind the surface flat?

RTV might seal it up. It's aluminum so it's slightly possible it can be welded. Slightly because transmissions are soaked in oils and impurities and impossible to get clean enough.

-Mac

 

[rickkin]

The smallest expandable freeze plugs are 3/4" and not knowing the size of the drain hole I was curious if there was anything else available that is smaller and turns out there is. I still like the freeze plug better though if it fits. more secure and more out of harm's way.

https://www.google.com/search?q=universal+repair+oil+drain+plug&sca_esv=da19ebeccc14b1b9&sxsrf=AE3TifNZHY0f545UPaS9mdlXYvBSELsQGQ:1760493911837&ei=VwHvaPHlMpDQkPIP9_nv4Ag&ved=0ahUKEwix7fnxjqWQAxUQKEQIHff8G4wQ4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=universal+repair+oil+drain+plug&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAaAhgCIh91bml2ZXJzYWwgcmVwYWlyIG9pbCBkcmFpbiBwbHVnMgYQABgWGB4yBhAAGBYYHjIGEAAYFhgeMgYQABgWGB4yCxAAGIAEGIYDGIoFMgsQABiABBiGAxiKBTILEAAYgAQYhgMYigUyCxAAGIAEGIYDGIoFMggQABiABBiiBDIIEAAYgAQYogRI-ExQAFj7RXAAeAGQAQCYAdgBoAHWF6oBBjI1LjUuMbgBA8gBAPgBAZgCH6ACohrCAgoQIxiABBgnGIoFwgIEECMYJ8ICCxAAGIAEGJECGIoFwgILEAAYgAQYsQMYgwHCAhEQLhiABBixAxjRAxiDARjHAcICBRAAGIAEwgIFEC4YgATCAgoQABiABBhDGIoFwgIKEC4YgAQYQxiKBcICDhAuGIAEGMcBGI4FGK8BwgIOEC4YgAQYsQMY0QMYxwHCAhMQLhiABBixAxjRAxjHARiKBRgKwgIIEAAYgAQYsQPCAgsQLhiABBixAxiDAcICChAAGIAEGBQYhwLCAg0QABiABBixAxgUGIcCwgIXEAAYgAQYkQIYpgMY-AUYqAMYigUYiwPCAhMQABiABBgUGKYDGIcCGKgDGIsDwgIREC4YgAQYkQIYxwEYigUYrwHCAgsQLhiABBjRAxjHAcICCxAuGIAEGMcBGK8BwgIIEAAYogQYiQWYAwDiAwUSATEgQJIHBzE0LjE2LjGgB4_AArIHBzE0LjE2LjG4B6IawgcHMi0xNC4xN8gH-QE&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

One of these universal plugs is looking like it might be the ticket. Seems like it would create a seal on the uneven surface and bypass the stripping issue. Thank you for sharing! I measured the pulled plug at 11/16" across. I'm going to try this, will report back. Before installing will take @macleanflood's advice and try to file it down flat.

@ all Thanks so much for all the input, very grateful to have a list of viable solutions (that all cost way less than a new transmission)

 

[Rickyd]

Rtv and an o ring or gasket material

 

[k1n3k]

Crush washer = Aluminum
Transmission case = Aluminum, but with more silicon

Never, ever, EVER use a hammer and chisel on a sealing surface. EVER. Even if things are stuck to it. one nick and it will drip until its resurfaced.

Thats so screwed up I doubt a rescue plug will seal. If it doesn't work, find some pipe joint compound that is hydrocarbon rated, slather it on the plug threads and then put the plug back in. That will need to fully cure, then refill it. It will be an absolute bitch to take out again too.

 

[GoldenGorilla]

I'd say Gasoila sealant is your best option

 

[B1Toad]

I think an expanding rubber plug will seal to the threads regardless of the condition of the surface around the hole. The surface could be built up with JB Weld and filed smooth though.

 

[sab]

My comments:

1. It sounds like the threads were deformed (partially stripped) by over-tightening previously.
2. I'm pretty sure there were not two crush-washers on their, and your self-diagnosis of chipping off part of the case is correct.
3. Easiest solution so far is B1Toad's expanding plug idea, but you may have to remove the internal threads (drill them or grind them out) in order to get it to seal.
4. The best solution is to install a heli-coil to fix the threads and use a piloted counterbore tool (it may need a custom pilot ground to fit) to cut a new seat. However, in order for this to work, you may need to have some weld-repair done. Mac's concern about the dirtiness of a transmission is spot-on, but it only means you need to find a welder who understands welding on an aluminum casting. TIG is the only way to go, and one of the neat things about TIG-welding aluminum is that it's done with AC current and the DC Electrode Positive ("DCEP") portion of the current is a cleaning action where the oxides that form from impurities mixing into the puddle during the DCEN portion get broken up and locked away in the grain structure of the aluminum. A good TIG machine allows you to set a high bias to DCEP to increase the cleaning action for dirty metals.

In order to preserve the ability to do #4 above (if necessary because #3 doesn't work), if you need to drill the threads out to get #3 to seal, use the tap drill size needed for a heli-coil installation so that you still can try #4 if #3 doesn't work. Good luck!

 

[B1Toad]

Any welding will likely require removal of the transmission and placing it upside down, otherwise the oil could drip for weeks and get worse with heat.

 

[macleanflood]

And as a nuclear option I see AX5s for sale all the time on FB for cheap. And if you throw a shout out to your local 4x4 clubs or Jeep clubs folks probably have a few laying around they didn't bother trying to sell.

https://www.facebook.com/share/18o2So3sv9/

-Mac

 

[Gilaguy23]

There’s no pressure in there, so maybe instead of JB Weld some oil resistant silicone?

I R&R'ed the fuel tank on a CJ3B that had a leaky drain plug. I used a Permatex gas proof product that I cant recall the name, Permashield maybe?? but it worked great. Im not even sure if its metric or SAE. If its SAE you might get a pipe plug of same size as they are tapered. Do NOT over do the tightness though as you'd probably crack the trans case, seen that happen before on a toyota Aisin 5 speed.

 

[Sean B]

My comments:

1. It sounds like the threads were deformed (partially stripped) by over-tightening previously.
2. I'm pretty sure there were not two crush-washers on their, and your self-diagnosis of chipping off part of the case is correct.
3. Easiest solution so far is B1Toad's expanding plug idea, but you may have to remove the internal threads (drill them or grind them out) in order to get it to seal.
4. The best solution is to install a heli-coil to fix the threads and use a piloted counterbore tool (it may need a custom pilot ground to fit) to cut a new seat. However, in order for this to work, you may need to have some weld-repair done. Mac's concern about the dirtiness of a transmission is spot-on, but it only means you need to find a welder who understands welding on an aluminum casting. TIG is the only way to go, and one of the neat things about TIG-welding aluminum is that it's done with AC current and the DC Electrode Positive ("DCEP") portion of the current is a cleaning action where the oxides that form from impurities mixing into the puddle during the DCEN portion get broken up and locked away in the grain structure of the aluminum. A good TIG machine allows you to set a high bias to DCEP to increase the cleaning action for dirty metals.

In order to preserve the ability to do #4 above (if necessary because #3 doesn't work), if you need to drill the threads out to get #3 to seal, use the tap drill size needed for a heli-coil installation so that you still can try #4 if #3 doesn't work. Good luck!

I have had better luck with solid inserts like timeserts or solid thread inserts, I will attach a picture of one I have gotten from MSC. I have used them on motorcycle case drain plays and used timeserts for spark plugs with good results. I found you have better luck getting the solid inserts to seal and hold than with a wire insert like a helicoil. The timeserts sets are a bit pricier than helicoil though.

 

[sab]

I have had better luck with solid inserts like timeserts or solid thread inserts, I will attach a picture of one I have gotten from MSC. I have used them on motorcycle case drain plays and used timeserts for spark plugs with good results. I found you have better luck getting the solid inserts to seal and hold than with a wire insert like a helicoil. The timeserts sets are a bit pricier than helicoil though.

I've used Heli-coils, Timeserts, and Keenserts over the years, but mostly Heli-coils. I'm about to use Keenserts to modify the Fluxor hinges I just got. I like the locking stakes of the Keensert design. The main advantage of Heli-coils, to me, is the ease in cutting them to length. A strong pair of side cutters or a cutoff wheel in a Dremel can cut off one pitch at a time until they fit. It seems that the solid inserts are always too long for the thickness I'm working with, and cutting them to length isn't as simple. I've never had a Heli-coil that was installed correctly "unthread," but I have had Timeserts unthread. In fact, my '01 Expedition suffered the dreaded Triton spark plug blow out. I installed Timesert-like inserts to repair the heads, but they, too, eventually blew out. And I do mean blew out. The head's aluminum threads simply sheared under compression pressures and remained on the plugs. I don't know that a Heli-coil would work better for that, though. It's just a bad design - too few threads of engagement on the plugs.

My choice for this repair would be a Heli-coil, but I think that's more about personal choice than right or wrong. Both can work.

 

[ItchyDong]

https://www.servicechamp.com/p/11575B

 

[mrblaine]

My choice for this repair would be a Heli-coil, but I think that's more about personal choice than right or wrong. Both can work.

I've seen far too many of them screwed right out the other side of a through to ever use them in anything but a blind hole. Your Ford problem with Time-serts aside for obvious reasons, I've used many of them in through holes with red Loctite and never had one move. I have never used one where the heat was high enough to ruin the Loctite, nor would I.