Double Clutch Into First Gear?

[BathiasRei]

Good morning,

Just got done swapping in a used ax15 and finally have a working first gear. As the title suggests and from being self taught how to drive stick on this TJ without a working first gear I was wondering if I'm putting a lot of strain on my trans/syncors by downshifting into first even with double clutching? I've been doing it to catch a yellow light here and there or pass someone in city traffic but I've read elsewhere that first should only be used when at a stop... I notice that first has a decent amount of resistance even with double clutching unless I rev it a lot around 5-8mph, im wondering if thats normal and I shouldn't be downshifting or if I should try Redline MT to cure this?

Thanks in advance
- Rei

 

[Imagineer]

Sounds like your syncros are worn out.

 

[cpwolf]

Good morning,

Just got done swapping in a used ax15 and finally have a working first gear. As the title suggests and from being self taught how to drive stick on this TJ without a working first gear I was wondering if I'm putting a lot of strain on my trans/syncors by downshifting into first even with double clutching? I've been doing it to catch a yellow light here and there or pass someone in city traffic but I've read elsewhere that first should only be used when at a stop... I notice that first has a decent amount of resistance even with double clutching unless I rev it a lot around 5-8mph, im wondering if thats normal and I shouldn't be downshifting or if I should try Redline MT to cure this?

Thanks in advance
- Rei

The trail is the only time I downshift to first in motion. I have, here and there ,but not on a regular basis. In fairness, I have the 6 speed and 1st is really torquey, but still. The scenario of a yellow light....I couldn't see myself in a situation at a speed slow enough to slam it back to first to make a light, ha. I'm kinda curious, did you do that and your last 1st gear go out? Maybe there's a reason, ha.

 

[BathiasRei]

The trail is the only time I downshift to first in motion. I have, here and there ,but not on a regular basis. In fairness, I have the 6 speed and 1st is really torquey, but still. The scenario of a yellow light....I couldn't see myself in a situation at a speed slow enough to slam it back to first to make a light, ha. I'm kinda curious, did you do that and your last 1st gear go out? Maybe there's a reason, ha.

No, I got the jeep from a family friend and first gear was already broken, thus leading me to learn solely starting in second

 

[annihil8ted]

The trail is the only time I downshift to first in motion. I have, here and there ,but not on a regular basis. In fairness, I have the 6 speed and 1st is really torquey, but still. The scenario of a yellow light....I couldn't see myself in a situation at a speed slow enough to slam it back to first to make a light, ha. I'm kinda curious, did you do that and your last 1st gear go out? Maybe there's a reason, ha.

Not to jack the thread but is downshifting into 1st a bad thing? I sometimes do it too when I'm rolling into a just changed red to green light. I do encounter some resistance but I figured I could work more on my rev matching. Should I be using 2nd instead?

 

[g.hayduke]

Downshifting to 1st is no different from any other downshift unless you have to use extreme force to make the shift. If extreme force is needed, the downshift should probably be to 2nd.

Unless your are undergeared, 2nd should be low enough if you are even barely moving forward.

What size tires and what gearing are you running?

 

[SPECWAR]

I very seldom use 1st gear. 99% of my starts from traffic lights, stop signs, and etc. are in 2nd gear. ( ‘06, 4.0, 6 spd, 3:73 gears, 32 inch tires)

 

[annihil8ted]

I very seldom use 1st gear. 99% of my starts from traffic lights, stop signs, and etc. are in 2nd gear. ( ‘06, 4.0, 6 spd, 3:73 gears, 32 inch tires)

Wow I've been doing it very wrong. I nearly aways start in first gear. Might need to change that. We have nearly identical specs, I'm just running 33 tires instead of 32.

What are your RPMs before shifting into second? I think I'd need close to 3K rpm to avoid shudder on go but I worry about burning out the clutch at the RPM

 

[Zorba]

Starting in 2nd with the 6 speed is doable if you give it a little more clutch than I like. If the Jeep is rolling at all though, its second gear.

 

[B1Toad]

I use first just to get moving from a stop, then right into second. If I do a "rolling" stop I'll only use 2nd. Using first on any manual transmission from a dead stop allows for less clutch slipping/wear IMHO. On my old 4 speed granny gear diesel pickup I could just let the clutch out in first with no skinny pedal at all, get rolling then I'd quick jam it into second and take off. Less smoke and no clutch wear.

If you're trying to go into first or any lower gear and you hear the syncros screaming you might be going too fast, or you might need to rev match a bit IMHO.

 

[jjvw]

Wow I've been doing it very wrong. I nearly aways start in first gear. Might need to change that. We have nearly identical specs, I'm just running 33 tires instead of 32.

What are your RPMs before shifting into second? I think I'd need close to 3K rpm to avoid shudder on go but I worry about burning out the clutch at the RPM

You are doing it fine. Start in first and wring it out well above 3k rpm. Do that again for 2nd, 3rd,.... until you hit whatever cruising speed you want.

 

[speeding_infraction]

Wow I've been doing it very wrong.

Not if you have an AX-15. They don't have a granny gear like the six-speeds do so you just use first gear like a normal gear to get moving.

 

[annihil8ted]

You are doing it fine. Start in first and wring it out well above 3k rpm. Do that again for 2nd, 3rd,.... until you hit whatever cruising speed you want.

Yeah that's usually what I do, always 3K+ before shifting but starting in first. Any time I try to start in second, I need to start engaging at 3K to avoid the shudder but feels a lot for the clutch and more than what I want.

Thanks y'all for the confirmation on 1st gear!

 

[jjvw]

Yeah that's usually what I do, always 3K+ before shifting but starting in first. Any time I try to start in second, I need to start engaging at 3K to avoid the shudder but feels a lot for the clutch and more than what I want.

Thanks y'all for the confirmation on 1st gear!

People who start off in 2nd are also people who shift at too low of an rpm.

 

[jjvw]

Not if you have an AX-15. They don't have a granny gear like the six-speeds do so you just use first gear like a normal gear to get moving.

The 6 speed should be driven the same way.

 

[Superjay5]

People who start off in 2nd are also people who shift at too low of an rpm.

That’s a blanket statement that’s not always true…

I start off in second, and I ring it out, I shift always around 3500, normal cruising speed I’m at 3000 rpm’s…. Depends on your gears

 

[JKP]

As others stated, it all depends on your trans, gearing and tire size.

With the 6 spd, 4.10s, and the stock Rubi size tires, 1st gear is pointless on the street unless starting off on a steep hill.

So, using 2nd to start off on the street with a stock Rubi, I got 270K on the OEM clutch before it went.

 

[BathiasRei]

Downshifting to 1st is no different from any other downshift unless you have to use extreme force to make the shift. If extreme force is needed, the downshift should probably be to 2nd.

Unless your are undergeared, 2nd should be low enough if you are even barely moving forward.

What size tires and what gearing are you running?

I’m on stock wheels and 3.07… was mainly asking since about first since there’s times that I’m lugging the jeep or riding the clutch around a turn in second making me want to downshift into first

 

[JKP]

If it's lugging, it's time to downshift.

You shouldn't really have to double clutch an AX15 if the syncros are good.

It takes a GL4 75w-90 gear oil or a synthetic 10w-30 per the OEM.

 

[BathiasRei]

If it's lugging, it's time to downshift.

You shouldn't really have to double clutch an AX15 if the syncros are good.

It takes a GL4 75w-90 gear oil or a synthetic 10w-30 per the OEM.

Maybe my syncros are a bit shot then, I notice that if I don’t double clutch there’s almost a gated feeling for a few seconds before it slides in when moving unless I give it a lot of rpm… currently have synthetic 10w30 in it