What lessons learned did Jeep incorporate on each generation going forward from the TJ?

[senecagreen]

I have a 2003 TJ Sahara auto with the Dana 44 rear. My son has a 2017 JK 2 door Rubicon.

I know suspension wise most on this forum feel upgrading to longer than stock control arms is better. The disagreement comes from how much longer but most agree longer is better.

I think Jeep paid attention to what TJ owners were doing to upgrade their jeeps capabilities when they designed the JK. Of course the liability lawyers had input into how far they were able to go and still be considered safe. So its a compromise always.

Looking at the control arms on my sons JK it looks like Jeep saw the advantages of what is called mid arm kits here and incorporated that from the factory on the JK. The JL appears to have even slightly longer arms than the JK.

Making the chassis wider each gen probably had to do with liability as the JL Rubicon comes straight from the factory on 33's.

My sons JK Rubicon stock is more capable than my TJ as it has inherent advantages.

I like my TJ. It is capable for what it is and at the time it was introduced an improvement over the previous model.

I just don't know how much I really want to spend to improve it. I can appreciate it for what it is and it's certainly not uncapable.

I think Jeeps next move will be the hurricane 6 in the wrangler to address the shortcomings of the V6 and those should be very popular. Jeeps are numerous around here.

 

[Rickyd]

What did jeep incorporate more of in each generation?

More plastic

More unreliable electronics

More minivan drivetrain parts

More ducks on the dash

 

[lBasket]

What did jeep incorporate more of in each generation?

More plastic

More unreliable electronics

More minivan drivetrain parts

More ducks on the dash

Funny enough in the MR2 world one of the best up and coming engines is a minivan engine (sienna v6)

 

[Rickyd]

Funny enough in the MR2 world one of the best up and coming engines is a minivan engine (sienna v6)

I can't say i never laid rubber with my moms old dodge caravan. Doesn't mean i want one of those motors(or transmissions) in a jeep though!

 

[GATORB8]

I have a 2003 TJ Sahara auto with the Dana 44 rear. My son has a 2017 JK 2 door Rubicon.

I know suspension wise most on this forum feel upgrading to longer than stock control arms is better. The disagreement comes from how much longer but most agree longer is better.

I think Jeep paid attention to what TJ owners were doing to upgrade their jeeps capabilities when they designed the JK. Of course the liability lawyers had input into how far they were able to go and still be considered safe. So its a compromise always.

Looking at the control arms on my sons JK it looks like Jeep saw the advantages of what is called mid arm kits here and incorporated that from the factory on the JK. The JL appears to have even slightly longer arms than the JK.

Making the chassis wider each gen probably had to do with liability as the JL Rubicon comes straight from the factory on 33's.

My sons JK Rubicon stock is more capable than my TJ as it has inherent advantages.

I like my TJ. It is capable for what it is and at the time it was introduced an improvement over the previous model.

I just don't know how much I really want to spend to improve it. I can appreciate it for what it is and it's certainly not uncapable.

I think Jeeps next move will be the hurricane 6 in the wrangler to address the shortcomings of the V6 and those should be very popular. Jeeps are numerous around here.

I don't really see the Hurricane 6 making it in the next generation unless it's a special replacement for the 392. The current 2.0T Hurricane 4 paired with the ZF 8 speed is a pretty solid package, and they've done the shoe-horning to fit the hemi specifically in the 392. The Hurricane 6 is basically the same added length as the hemi.

EDIT:

The JT has longer rears, but IIRC JK and JL rear arms are the same. Front JL/JT start out 1 3/8" longer than JK.

JK to JL axle improvements were significant going to the advantek's. There are several JL mid generation and trim specific axle improvements to both tubes and rear full floats as well.

 

[Daryl]

Highlined the fenders on JK. Added outboard shocks on the JL.

 

[lumberjacklloyd]

JK to JL axle improvements were significant going to the advantek's. There are several JL mid generation and trim specific axle improvements to both tubes and rear full floats as well.

I was under the impression JK generation 44's (489 nickname) were superior to the new M220?

 

[TheBoogieman]

What lessons learned did jeep incorporate on each Gen going forward from the TJ?​

How to please soccer moms and the guys that married them and now have 5 kids (4 doors).

 

[jeepguy03]

The JK and JL have more features that improve their capability in stock form, but the complexity has increased as emissions and fuel economy standards have tightened down. My TJ is currently 27 years old. I wouldn't want to own a 27 year old JK or JL, much less wheel one where stuff will break.

I daily a 2019 Grand Cherokee with the 5.7L V8. It's a great vehicle that is very capable in snow, comfortable on several hour long road trips, can tow my Kubota and 16ft trailer easily, and also manages 18 mpg around town. It is also a very complex vehicle, and I know for a fact the complex systems and repairing them will be its demise long before rust gets it.

 

[Zorba]

What did jeep incorporate more of in each generation?

More plastic

More unreliable electronics

More minivan drivetrain parts

More ducks on the dash

The increased size is NOT a feature...

 

[GATORB8]

I was under the impression JK generation 44's (489 nickname) were superior to the new M220?

Other than some handwringing over the FAD, that'd be news to me.

 

[Irun]

Funny enough in the MR2 world one of the best up and coming engines is a minivan engine (sienna v6)

Big difference there, Toyota built V6 vs a Chrysler built V6!

 

[Irun]

It took them until 2012 to replace the 42RLE, but they finally did. FWIW, the JK ran the 3.8l minivan engine mated to a 42RLE from 2007 to 2011. It was common for the transmissions to get so hot they'd spew transmission fluid onto the exhaust, which in a number of cases then caught fire. Jeeps fix for the problem was to not install a transmission cooler, but to install a "Hot Oil" light. This one I know first hand!

 

[GATORB8]

The increased size is NOT a feature...

I keep telling my wife that, but she's hard to convince.

 

[GATORB8]

It took them until 2012 to replace the 42RLE, but they finally did. FWIW, the JK ran the 3.8l minivan engine mated to a 42RLE from 2007 to 2011. It was common for the transmissions to get so hot they'd spew transmission fluid onto the exhaust, which in a number of cases then caught fire. Jeeps fix for the problem was to not install a transmission cooler, but to install a "Hot Oil" light. This one I know first hand!

Exploding MTs have been fun to hear about for the whole JL run. Nothing like a recall to detune the 3.6 so the clutch doesn't grenade itself.

 

[lumberjacklloyd]

Other than some handwringing over the FAD, that'd be news to me.

M220 is slightly smaller ring gear for sure. I feel like I remember the JK tubes being thicker as well with similar OD (I understand diameter is more important than thickness for stiffness)

 

[jeepguy03]

The JKs/JLs come with larger tires, but there are plenty of cases of deathwobble on stock almost new Jeeps.

 

[GATORB8]

M220 is slightly smaller ring gear for sure. I feel like I remember the JK tubes being thicker as well with similar OD (I understand diameter is more important than thickness for stiffness)

This is from Dana based off the original runs. There's a bunch of small upgrades in the newer ones between trims like thicker axle tubes, newer full float rears, factory CVs:

 

[lumberjacklloyd]

This is from Dana based off the original runs. There's a bunch of small upgrades in the newer ones between trims like thicker axle tubes, newer full float rears, factory CVs:

View attachment 655181

Nice data sheet!

Smaller ring gear (8.99 vs 8.66) moves pinion offset 0.12 inches or 3 mm. That means the pinion has lost 15mm of "lever arm" (18.1mm-3mm of offset from ring gear diameter difference) meaning pinion must apply more thrust to achieve same torque on carrier...angular ball bearings will never take the abuse tapered roller bearings will either. Maybe there is a correlation with people having pinion failures in JL axles? I really think the JK axles were peak for Jeep.

Nice to see they beefed up the front tubes and kept the rears the same.

 

[Chris]

Build them to comply with crooked and corrupt governmental regulations, that's it.

The JKs and JLs are completely riddled with electronic problems. I know a number of people with JLs, and every single one of them gleefully turned them back in after the lease was up. In so many words they all shared with me the same sentiment; that they would never again buy a Mopar vehicle.

Unfortunately it isn't limited to just Jeep. All new cars are built this way, but I will say that new Jeeps seem to be especially problematic.