Tom Wood front drive shaft: XB (Boot) or XC (greasable) and which double cardan CV?

[Gibson125t]

I feel like I have ready through every thread here on the subject. read through Tom Woods site... and called and spoke to a rep... and I still feel undecided.

2003 Jeep TJ Rubicon. approx 3 inches of lift and 33" tires


looking at Tom Woods front drive shaft. do I get the XB spline setup? (Boot) or the XC (greaseable with a dust cap). the website explains them in a way that made me think boot. because I am in Florida, so.. not much for rocks. but lots of mud, water, sand, and dirt when off roading. this jeep is my daily and my offroad toy (I would say average about 1 or 2 trips a month. sometimes more. sometimes less).

read many posts (a lot from Shawn over at TW). still didn't feel confident yet. so I called.... at first he said boot... but then switched to saying XC even with the mud and such, because it would be just as good, and would just need grease after an offroad trip, where the boot.. if it does rip, I would have to order and wait, etc. and.. if I did want to change my lift (which one day I do... don't care for what previous owner did).. the boot was more restrictive and I might would need to send it back in.. where the XC would basically be good for any lift up to 4" (and I don't plan to go over 4" of lift).

so.. get the boot....... might have to replace it if it gets ripped on a tree branch, palmetto bush, etc. or XC where you just add more grease when you get home... sounds like XC right? but... then why would boot be suggested as the one for mud and water? does having the spline exposed mean potential rust to the part of the spline not in the yoke? it seems like its more like "boot if you don't wanna grease after every trip and every oil change". not "boot better for mud". but... i feel like I am missing something. or miss understanding.

secondly... CV Joints for double cardan? Get greaseable or non greasable? TW stated greaseable would need doing every 5k miles. dont wanna pull driveshaft every 3-5 months. didnt find much info though on the longevity of non greaseable.

edited to shorten.

 

[Tob]

the front shaft's double cardan is not in a fun spot to have to regrease

You must grease the centering ball or it will start squealing and eventually fail (catastrophically along with the transfer case). This applies to both driveshafts, of course. At a minimum, the transfer case end of the driveshaft must be disconnected to access the grease fitting.

For what it’s worth, I bought the XB (boot) front driveshaft. I tore two boots while wheeling, then decided to convert my XB to an XC by drilling and tapping the lower section for a grease fitting and installing the spline seal. Finding rocks to tear the boot on in Florida is probably just as unlikely as it is in Louisiana where I am. I tore my boots in rocky Texas hill country and Arkansas Ozarks.

Get the XC if you foresee yourself playing in rocks. Greasing the splines is not difficult or time consuming at all.

And yes, short, readable posts are appreciated by responders and future readers! No need for ramblings or inconsequential details.

 

[Gibson125t]

You must grease the centering ball or it will start squealing and eventually fail (catastrophically along with the transfer case). This applies to both driveshafts, of course. At a minimum, the transfer case end of the driveshaft must be disconnected to access the grease fitting.

For what it’s worth, I bought the XB (boot) front driveshaft. I tore two boots while wheeling, then decided to convert my XB to an XC by drilling and tapping the lower section for a grease fitting and installing the spline seal. Finding rocks to tear the boot on in Florida is probably just as unlikely as it is in Louisiana where I am. I tore my boots in rocky Texas hill country and Arkansas Ozarks.

Get the XC if you foresee yourself playing in rocks. Greasing the splines is not difficult or time consuming at all.

And yes, short, readable posts are appreciated by responders and future readers! No need for ramblings or inconsequential details.

Are the non greasable cv/ball joints just a bad option? I hope I am explaining my confusion well here. Stock was non greaseable. On the phone TW told me the greasable should be every 5k miles. Removing the front drive shaft from the transfer case every 5k miles doesn't seem reasonable for a daily driver. At least for me.. I really don't wanna do that every 3-5 is months. I don't actually wanna have to do that again for... a few years. If a non greasable lasts a similar lifespan to what the stock one did... it seems it would outlast the rest of the life of the motor, transmission, etc. Am I thinking about this wrong? does non greaseable just not have a good lifespan?

how has your XC conversion held up in mud and water?

 

[Tob]

Are the non greasable cv/ball joints just a bad option? I hope I am explaining my confusion well here. Stock was non greaseable. On the phone TW told me the greasable should be every 5k miles. Removing the front drive shaft from the transfer case every 5k miles doesn't seem reasonable for a daily driver. At least for me.. I really don't wanna do that every 3-5 is months. I don't actually wanna have to do that again for... a few years. If a non greasable lasts a similar lifespan to what the stock one did... it seems it would outlast the rest of the life of the motor, transmission, etc. Am I thinking about this wrong? does non greaseable just not have a good lifespan?

how has your XC conversion held up in mud and water?

It seems you are a little confused on the joints so let me lay it out for you.

There are 3 U-joints and 1 centering ball in the driveshaft in question. 1 U-joint is at the axle pinion yoke, and the other two are at the transfer case yoke with the centering ball between them. These two U-joints, along with the centering ball between them, make up the “double cardan” (DC) or “constant velocity” (CV) joint. Tom Woods offers greasable or non-greasable (sealed) U-joints. However, there are no such options for the centering ball. It must be greased, although its maintenance frequency may differ from greasable U-joints (Tom Woods can advise).

The XC conversion I did has held up just fine. You mentioned concern over rusty splines earlier, but that is not an issue. The splines are coated with a blue low-friction coating and do not rust where it matters.

 

[JKP]

However, there are no such options for the centering ball. It must be greased, although its maintenance frequency may differ from greasable U-joints (Tom Woods can advise).

The factory centering ball is sealed, and it's definitely an option.

I ran the factory front shaft for 258K mi before the centering ball started to go.

I'm running the TW front shaft with sealed U joints and the greaseable centering ball here in Mid GA. And if I had it to do over, I would have spec'd the sealed centering ball as dropping the front shaft is a pain considering it should go 250K mi with a sealed one. TW prefers the greaseable.

 

[Gibson125t]

It seems you are a little confused on the joints so let me lay it out for you.

There are 3 U-joints and 1 centering ball in the driveshaft in question. 1 U-joint is at the axle pinion yoke, and the other two are at the transfer case yoke with the centering ball between them. These two U-joints, along with the centering ball between them, make up the “double cardan” (DC) or “constant velocity” (CV) joint. Tom Woods offers greasable or non-greasable (sealed) U-joints. However, there are no such options for the centering ball. It must be greased, although its maintenance frequency may differ from greasable U-joints (Tom Woods can advise).

The XC conversion I did has held up just fine. You mentioned concern over rusty splines earlier, but that is not an issue. The splines are coated with a blue low-friction coating and do not rust where it matters.

Thank you for the reply.

I was aware of the different joints. if this did not relay.. that's on me for not doing so correctly. so to be clear... my question about greaseable vs non greaseable is specific to the centering ball (CV yoke). maybe because I was typing as cv/ball... that's on me as its referred to by CV yoke in some places.. while others will just state centering ball, I was trying to cover both terms and instead I seems to cover neither term. for the U joints, there is no question. I am going non greaseable. and have already done so on my rear drive shaft. so my question wasn't for u joints in any capacity. again, sorry for any confusion.

as centering ball options. the website doesn't give any.. but over the phone it was stated that it can be requested. per TW... the greaseable is what they use and prefer for its ability to handle larger angles. also stated on there website

https://4xshaft.com/blogs/faq/greas...9RsghaBuGyTwgUAbR-30Xk8KKthSuhB5Sod4SOYNwvAkq

however.... I am confused by this as..... would you still need that additional flexibility if you have done a proper lift? meaning..... adjustable control arms so that angles where adjusted? or is there an incorrect assumption here on my part?

 

[Gibson125t]

The factory centering ball is sealed, and it's definitely an option.

I ran the factory front shaft for 258K mi before the centering ball started to go.

I'm running the TW front shaft with sealed U joints and the greaseable centering ball here in Mid GA. And if I had it to do over, I would have spec'd the sealed centering ball as dropping the front shaft is a pain considering it should go 250K mi with a sealed one. TW prefers the greaseable.

are you mostly daily driving or does that center ball on yours see mud and water? how often are you having to regrease? I know what TW suggests (every 5k miles). but thats... not reasonable to me given that the drive shaft needs to be disconnected from T case. (or... at least... some consider it the easiest way).

i am leaning towards sealed I think. TW just seems to really want you to choose the greaseable. and they know driveshafts better then me. so obviously I need to weigh their opinion pretty heavily. but I also understand they are producing a product for many people. with many setups. and its at least possible they prefer greaseable because its best all around for a large verity of rigs they are being installed in. in which case... I need to decide if my jeep falls in the "better with greaseable" or "better with non greaseable" category.

 

[Tob]

I stand corrected. I did not see that as an option on the product page and assumed that they didn’t offer it. I can’t comment on greasable vs sealed centering ball and would defer to Tom Woods or others’ advice on that choice.

 

[JKP]

are you mostly daily driving or does that center ball on yours see mud and water? how often are you having to regrease? I know what TW suggests (every 5k miles). but thats... not reasonable to me given that the drive shaft needs to be disconnected from T case. (or... at least... some consider it the easiest way).

i am leaning towards sealed I think. TW just seems to really want you to choose the greaseable. and they know driveshafts better then me. so obviously I need to weigh their opinion pretty heavily. but I also understand they are producing a product for many people. with many setups. and its at least possible they prefer greaseable because its best all around for a large verity of rigs they are being installed in. in which case... I need to decide if my jeep falls in the "better with greaseable" or "better with non greaseable" category.

The Jeep was my daily for a long time, but now I'm retired and have a car for daily use. Stock height Rubi.

So, now it's used for hunting, fishing, camping trips in Mid GA, E TN.

It sees red clay, sand, standing water on GA hunting leases, WMAs and county dirt "roads." I've had water over the bumper, but not that often.

In the E TN mtns, just forest service rds, trails, with the occasional creek crossing.

I still have the OEM shaft that I'm going to rebuild eventually, with a sealed centering ball and U joints. The sealed U joints were fine, the slip joint was like new with plenty of grease, although the boot was starting to show some dry rot, the only problem was the centering ball. I'm the original owner.

I've been greasing the centering ball about every 6 months. I just pull the shaft out. Not that hard, but I went for 17 yrs without having to....

 

[Gibson125t]

The Jeep was my daily for a long time, but now I'm retired and have a car for daily use. Stock height Rubi.

So, now it's used for hunting, fishing, camping trips in Mid GA, E TN.

It sees red clay, sand, standing water on GA hunting leases, WMAs and county dirt "roads." I've had water over the bumper, but not that often.

In the E TN mtns, just forest service rds, trails, with the occasional creek crossing.

I still have the OEM shaft that I'm going to rebuild eventually, with a sealed centering ball and U joints. The sealed U joints were fine, the slip joint was like new with plenty of grease, although the boot was starting to show some dry rot, the only problem was the centering ball. I'm the original owner.

I've been greasing the centering ball about every 6 months. I just pull the shaft out. Not that hard, but I went for 17 yrs without having to....

you say not that hard... so I have to ask more if you dont mind. because I just removed my front drive shaft yesterday.... and it was a pain the butt. seems either you removed the skid plate first, which has its own set of pains... or.. you dont and have to reach in where there was very little space to remove those 4 8mm bolts. which... I almost couldn't get off from the weird angle you have to come it at. it took me almost an hour to get those 4 bolts out (breaking them loose was the problem, they where not hard once broke loose, I just removed the drive shaft from the front axle so I could rotate each bolt to the 1 spot I could get to them).

so... if you have a better way or any tips I would love to hear. I may have been causing more headache unknowingly by missing something.

 

[JKP]

I position the Jeep so that 2 of the Tcase end bolts are near the frame. I use a 1/4 inch ratchet, 5/16 socket on the OEM bolts, the TW bolts are 7/16 bolt head. Remove those 2. Remove the 4 bolts from the U joint at the front axle. Pull the shaft back from the axle and rotate it 180 and put it back in the yoke. Now remove the remaining 2 bolts at the Tcase end. Don't put your head under the shaft unless you put the straps back on...

I do the tcase end bolts with my left hand as I don't lift the Jeep up and am just laying down slightly under it with my head near the front tire.

Just did this a week or so ago.. so good till Thanksgiving/Christmas. I lube it with Lucas Marine grease which is a calcium sulfonate like TW recommends, and it shouldn't wash out.

I always put blue Loctite on the bolts when I put them back in.

 

[Gibson125t]

I r

I position the Jeep so that 2 of the Tcase end bolts are near the frame. I use a 1/4 inch ratchet, 5/16 socket on the OEM bolts, the TW bolts are 7/16 bolt head. Remove those 2. Remove the 4 bolts from the U joint at the front axle. Pull the shaft back from the axle and rotate it 180 and put it back in the yoke. Now remove the remaining 2 bolts at the Tcase end. Don't put your head under the shaft unless you put the straps back on...

I do the tcase end bolts with my left hand as I don't lift the Jeep up and am just laying down slightly under it with my head near the front tire.

Just did this a week or so ago.. so good till Thanksgiving/Christmas. I lube it with Lucas Marine grease which is a calcium sulfonate like TW recommends, and it shouldn't wash out.

I always put blue Loctite on the bolts when I put them back in.

Really appreciate your responses.

Another question. You said you have in fact had your jeep in water to the bumper. Did you regrease right after? Or was it fine. Doing every 6 months doesn't sound fun... but might be feasible. Doing it after every off road trip (which means mud and water).. does not. I would be removing the drive shaft twice a month or more.

 

[JKP]

I've only done it every 6 months or so. It's always still had plenty of grease in it.

TW sends a plastic needle for greasing it, but you really need a metal one. I don't think the plastic would last, and I've never used it.