The Issue in Harney County

Well, let's see here...how am I going to go about this without upsetting a bunch of folks and making a few heads pop in the process.

I really understand where you are coming from Chris. These folks, and the many like them, may be way outside of your experience.

But, I have to say that I have a lot of admiration and empathy for the folks that are doing things like this. Especially the ones who are in their position. Let me start with a little story if I may. It concerns my maternal grandfather.

Granpa was born in California in the late 1880's as near as anyone could figure out. Maybe the 90's. He fought in WW1 with Pershing. (The family has served in the military since the revolutionary war, though we did fight with the British on that one.) Part of the deal with fighting in that war was access to land in the west. He applied for and received a section of land down on the Mexican border, an old Spanish land grant. Mustang-ed and broke horses for the US Army. It was a two day trip into Lordsberg, NM from the ranch, so my mom didn't get into town very often. Anyway, the army stopped buying horses and the ranch became uneconomic. Granpa moved to Oregon and settled on about 80 acres in Happy Valley. Nice place, he did a good job of farming and ranching it. Kept the family in meat and vegetables, as well as the neighbors for miles around. Finally figured out why he grew the garden the way he did. Smart guy. Anyway, his third wife died after a long illness. Years later, when Granpa died, the State came in a basically took the farm from the family to pay for his wife's medical bills. Medicaid, you know. Granpa was full of sayings. Things like: "You have no rights that you are not willing to fight for." "If you can't look a man in the eye and shake his hand to make the deal, a contract isn't going to do you any good, boy." "Taking the coat off another man's back isn't going to make you any warmer, boy." You get the idea.

Now there are a LOT of folks out there that are still like that. They have what is now considered those hokey old fashioned values. They didn't need or want the government to get involved in their lives, they were doing just fine without them. They paid their taxes, voted, fought and died in wars, argued with and helped out their neighbors, raised families and all in all were pretty independent minded and free spirited. They also invariably took care of the land and their little piece of nature, because they understood that the land was what kept them alive and well now and into the future.

Fast forward to today. In the last thirty - forty years we have become convinced that the source of our rights is the government, bureaucrats are always in the right, everything should be regulated, Judge Judy is on the Supreme Court, and a host of other stuff.

Now those individuals out there who are raising our beef and other food may not see it that way. They feel that they have God given rights. They also feel that it is a righteous thing to do to stand up for and defend those rights. After all, they and their families have been doing it for generations and hundreds of years.

Now they are feeling that they are being regulated into a corner and their livelihoods and land are being taken away for purposes that they feel are absurd by people whom they don't respect and whom they feel should be working for them, and not against them. After all these rural folks pay their salaries and are their bosses, right?

You may not agree with them. You may abhor what they are doing and how they are doing it. You may not understand why they are doing it even. Just be empathetic, and don't call them idiots when you are grilling a steak, cooking dinner, building something with wood or sleeping soundly in your bed at night, because their rough sons (and daughters, now) are probably standing a post in the middle of the night in a far off land to ensure that you sleep peacefully at night. When you go in to vote this year, pause to think about why and how you came to be allowed to exercise that right. Do you understand your rights and are you willing to defend them? They do.

Not really pointed at you there Chris, but this gets my passions up.

I've had way to many people bitch to me about a farmer or a rancher with their mouths full, or want to take away or limit someones rights because of the way they "feel". Makes me cranky, it does.
 
I think they're just going about it in the wrong way is all. I mean taking over a wild life refuge center that probably hardly anyone visits, yet thinking that's some sort of big deal? Why not take over a bank or something? LOL

I mean I suppose it doesn't matter since they've got the media attention they wanted, but I don't think the message is getting across to the general public. Of course that's the media for you!
 
Rhonda Karges – Resource Field Manager for the BLM is the wife of Chad Karges Refuge Manager for the Malheur Wildlife refuge

Makes perfect sense to me why that location was selected.......
 
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Rhonda Karges – Resource Field Manager for the BLM is the wife of Chad Karges Refuge Manager for the Malheur Wildlife refuge

Makes perfect sense to me why that location was selected.......

Oh, I understand why they choose that location, but what I am saying is what impact does that make? It's a wildlife refuge center in the middle of nowhere. Why not just take a parking lot? LOL...
 
Oh yeah, I'm well aware of it......
The right of first refusal was the basis of the whole thing. BLM wants the land. With no income due to incarceration, the taxes cant be paid. I don't need to tell you what happens next....
 
But seriously... Do you think once this is over Ammon and any of those others will go to jail or anything?

I mean they have taken over a building which has to carry some crime, no?
 
I'm sure there will be repercussions. It just wont happen there and then. They can just have a grand jury indict him and issue a warrant, they'll get him somewhere, sometime, when its convenient.
 
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Oh, I understand why they choose that location, but what I am saying is what impact does that make? It's a wildlife refuge center in the middle of nowhere. Why not just take a parking lot? LOL...
The impact it makes, is that you and I and many others are now aware of all the wrongdoing. It's well documented and the media has made it public. It stayed within Harney County for a long time. I won't be surprised to see congressional hearings over it, especially if the claims of shred parties are true.
 
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Makes sense. My thought is they can't just do this and get away with it.

So I guess if I were this guy I would be asking myself if I really want to be arrested, spend time in jail, etc.. Seems like he's got more to lose than most average people.
 
The impact it makes, is that you and I and many others are now aware of all the wrongdoing. It's well documented and the media has made it public. It stayed within Harney County for a long time. I won't be surprised to see congressional hearings over it, especially if the claims of shred parties are true.

This is true. Of course a good majority of the people watching this on TV only see 'terrorists' and a circus side show (since that's kind of how the media has branded it). So, while some of us might be smart enough to look deeper into the issues, I suspect the general public will not.
 
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Did you notice how fast the BLM mining deal went away in sw Oregon? Not a peep about that in months. The miners are still working the claim and no one's been arrested yet. Hmmm...?
 
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Looks like shit went down today. Ammon is in custody with some others, and one guy is dead.

In the end I just want to ask them, "Was it worth it?".

Sure, I'm not saying their intentions (and what they're fighting for) isn't a noble cause. However, is it worth losing your land, going to jail for a long time, etc.? If you ask me, it isn't.
 
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Well, that's unfortunate. Didn't turn out like I expected at all.

Apparently, these citizens were willing to die for their beliefs. Some did this time. Not the first time, and won't be the last.

Sometimes, you got to ask yourself "What do I believe in?". I believe that I'll have three fingers of bourbon on the rocks and contemplate this.
 
People that thumb their nose at laws you and I must obey are asking for trouble. They got it, but nobody forced them to do it.

I'll let this go for now and say a prayer for those that had to shoot and those shot! I hate bloodshed!
 
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Looks like shit went down today. Ammon is in custody with some others, and one guy is dead.

In the end I just want to ask them, "Was it worth it?".

Sure, I'm not saying their intentions (and what they're fighting for) isn't a noble cause. However, is it worth losing your land, going to jail for a long time, etc.? If you ask me, it isn't.
Ask Jefferson, Adams, Washington et. al. If it was worth it. Now I've gone and said to much.
 
Not to mention times are a bit more civilized nowadays than it was back then.