Kicker CS 5.25s too weak, any car stereo guys here?

[CreepinDeth]

My dash speakers went from being non-existent to being crucial to my happiness.

I run a soundstream 5-channel amp to polk 5.25s in dash pods with some poly-fill and Polk 6.5s in the sound bar since that’s what size the PO previously had installed. I’ve been absolutely thrilled with the results for two years top down or windowless for 95% of the time listening to my music up to 75 mph before the wind eventually takes over.

My buddy was laughing at how awesome a song sounded the other night as we blasted tunes with the top down chasing fireworks. (The mountain/hill was on fire after one awesome finale).

Summary: I know the dash speakers can sound good, just needs to be set up correctly.

Something seems amiss with your results. Was your amp gain turned up properly up front (and crossovers set correctly)? Edit: Probably not an issue since you tried two amps.

Did you use properly sized copper power & ground wires? Do you have a good ground?

I used 4-awg power & ground wire to reduce voltage drop even though the amp called for something smaller (around 6 or 8 awg iirc). And I ran new speaker wire to reduce voltage drop.

Probably not necessary for your issue, but a Durango alternator provides me with 160 amps as well.

You should have been blasting those Kicker speakers if you gave them each 100W rms with the gain and volume turned up. The dash speaker locations are no problem for me. Anyone interested can come take a listen.

I set my gain with an oscillocscope to see the 1000hz clipping edge, then back off a bit.

Wires as follows
4gauge to amp & ground (grounded @ emergency brake)
14 gauge to all speakers

Been doing stereoz since I was 19
In the end, its about the angle, location, ratings of the speakers. I have Diamond Audio 6x9s on my Victory Magnum that aim up but even riding I mainly hear the fronts as they come straight at me, whereas the 6x9s are behind me aimed upwards

The issue Im having shopping for speakers lately is the misinformation / marketing scams manufacturers trying to list sensitivity ratings at 1m/2.83v without CLEARLY letting the consumer know its not 1m/1v Sensitivity.

Basically false advertising IMHO to list 3db higher on the rating

 

[CreepinDeth]

I used some 1" spacers under the two rear seat brackets to fit the Rockville 10.

@skrelnik mentioned the quick disconnect - that is a great suggestion, I use mine for extra trunk space more than i thought i would.

View attachment 439129

View attachment 439128

Bottom right picture
What is that connection there??

Also, where did you source the spacers??
I need to look into that GREAT IDEA!!!

 

[BlueRidge304]

Bottom right picture
What is that connection there??

That's the quick-disconnect for the Rockville sub.

Scosche quick disconnect

 

[NashvilleTJ]

@P man What do you mean we used to be good?

I feel you, Jerry. My them song is Toby Keith’s “I ain’t as good as I once was…”

 

[freedom_in_4low]

I didnt catch the joke initially, but I did see the documentary where Lars was a wee bit of a dick move there when he did that.

Its no wonder Jason left, and a surprise he stayed as long as he did

it's complicated and I'm not sure anybody but Lars and James know the real truth about it. Could have been hazing Jason, could have been their own way of acknowledging that Cliff was gone, and it could have just been that they had a sound in mind and mixing the bass down to being inaudible was how they got it. But regardless of how or why it happened, I think it's the best sounding Metallica record, maybe best sounding metal record period, and that unapologetic, unrelenting guitar assault on my ears is what made me a fan of the band and the genre. AJFA has plenty of low end, they just didn't use a bass guitar to make it.

In 2005 I was the only guy in town with a car audio system that used it to blast decades-old metal and rock instead of rap. I've been out of that game for a while now and have forgotten too much to contribute anything that hasn't already been mentioned here. I have soundpods and Kickers run off a head unit and the staging is atrocious like you've said and the frequency profile is slightly better than a 1990 alarm clock radio. Even though AJFA does have low end, I'm at least hearing all the instruments, even if I'm not hearing their entire character. It's particularly annoying though to listen to things where the bass guitar really adds something, like Zeppelin or Rush or Tool, or for that matter, Cliff-era Metallica.

 

[BlueRidge304]

Also, where did you source the spacers??

Had them from another project but any big box HW store or Tractor Supply will have what you need. I just stacked hardware temporarily to get the right height, then used similar sized spacers and longer bolts.

 

[JMT]

I’ve got 1/2” aluminum block spacers under my rear seat to accommodate my 8” sub in a sealed enclosure.

Currently setting up 1 1/2” blocks under my sons rear seat to accommodate his 10” sub.

 

[red02tj]

I might be the only one alive that knows what you're talking about.
p.s. My vids are so much better.

Not the only one…coolest concert souvenir I have is when I was close enough to catch a Hetfiled pick.

 

[MikeE024]

I set my gain with an oscillocscope to see the 1000hz clipping edge, then back off a bit.

Wires as follows
4gauge to amp & ground (grounded @ emergency brake)
14 gauge to all speakers

Been doing stereoz since I was 19
In the end, its about the angle, location, ratings of the speakers. I have Diamond Audio 6x9s on my Victory Magnum that aim up but even riding I mainly hear the fronts as they come straight at me, whereas the 6x9s are behind me aimed upwards

The issue Im having shopping for speakers lately is the misinformation / marketing scams manufacturers trying to list sensitivity ratings at 1m/2.83v without CLEARLY letting the consumer know its not 1m/1v Sensitivity.

Basically false advertising IMHO to list 3db higher on the rating

Do you have a proper ground from the body to the battery? I added a 4 awg ground from the battery to the body where the grill support meets the firewall.

Ive been doing this for a long time as well, and I’m OCD with my tunes and replace systems that don’t sound good. Your rear speakers shouldn’t steal all the juice from your amp unless u set them up to do so. I’d reduce the gain in the rear and increase it up in the front more to try to achieve proper balance.

Maybe install the Polks and see what you think.

What deck are you running? Could there potentially be an issue with it?

 

[Akitadog]

Do you have a proper ground from the body to the battery? I added a 4 awg ground from the battery to the body where the grill support meets the firewall.

Ive been doing this for a long time as well, and I’m OCD with my tunes and replace systems that don’t sound good. Your rear speakers shouldn’t steal all the juice from your amp unless u set them up to do so. I’d reduce the gain in the rear and increase it up in the front more to try to achieve proper balance.

Maybe install the Polks and see what you think.

What deck are you running? Could there potentially be an issue with it?

I have 0ga wire to the ground point on the engine block and then goes to the ground point on the body firewall.
0ga from Alternator to positive on battery.

 

[MikeE024]

I have 0ga wire to the ground point on the engine block and then goes to the ground point on the body firewall.
0ga from Alternator to positive on battery.

I grounded from the battery to the block as well. Seemed like cheap insurance to know I have properly grounded circuits. I added a fused 6awg to the alternator that needs to be properly replaced.

I used welding wire for these runs.

 

[SSTJ]

So I bought the Kicker CS series as recommended by many TJ videos, and fellow enthusiasts…..

However sadly, theyre nearly empty on the sound stage. Im powering ea of the 4 main channels with a 100Watt per ch RMS amp. I also have them in the $90 aftermarket Sound pods

Tried the Soundstream P4.1000 D class
[URL]https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B008XOCU80?tag=wranglerorg-20[/URL]

Tried the Rockville Proton (80w x4ch)
[URL]https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01D857GL4?tag=wranglerorg-20[/URL]

I know a part of the issue is the 6.5” Skar TX65s in the rollbar pods are waaay overpowering them on the sound stage. Benefit of bein close to the heads of front occupants.

So Im sending all the Kickers back, and Im back on the hunt. The Polk D522s look about the same on paper, so lookin for some user input here who installed an amplifier and got a better 5.25” front to balance out the 6.5” in roll bar.

Im lookin at Components and Coaxials but thinkin a component might be better so as to put the tweeters top of dash for a better sound stage. Just need to keep it 4ohm

Anyone gor higher end speakers up front that can chime in on better amplified options??? Im lookin at Hertz components next, but seeking input

[URL]https://www.crutchfield.com/p_301K130/Hertz-K-130.html?tp=105[/URL]

I'm not sure if this is high-end enough for your taste, but I went with Rockford Fosgates all around and really enjoy them. Just a Soundstream 4-channel amp under the steering column. All outlined in the "audio" link of my build thread's table of contents (in signature below).

 

[CreepinDeth]

Do you have a proper ground from the body to the battery? I added a 4 awg ground from the battery to the body where the grill support meets the firewall.

Ive been doing this for a long time as well, and I’m OCD with my tunes and replace systems that don’t sound good. Your rear speakers shouldn’t steal all the juice from your amp unless u set them up to do so. I’d reduce the gain in the rear and increase it up in the front more to try to achieve proper balance.

Maybe install the Polks and see what you think.

What deck are you running? Could there potentially be an issue with it?

With ANY kind of speaker size difference, there will be noticeable variances even in a perfect seated position, and perfectly aimed speakers.

Now add in the roll bar closest to the drivers head, AND a larger speaker, with the smaller speaker aimed far below the listeners target hearing zone, and the imbalance becomes much more audible

Theres ways to overcome it with fader controls, but I feel like the Kickers arent built for the volume I anticipate using. I will have to ramp them up quite a fair margin to keep up with the bigger rears ability

 

[MikeE024]

With ANY kind of speaker size difference, there will be noticeable variances even in a perfect seated position, and perfectly aimed speakers.

Now add in the roll bar closest to the drivers head, AND a larger speaker, with the smaller speaker aimed far below the listeners target hearing zone, and the imbalance becomes much more audible

Theres ways to overcome it with fader controls, but I feel like the Kickers arent built for the volume I anticipate using. I will have to ramp them up quite a fair margin to keep up with the bigger rears ability

I’m aware of the general variables involved. I successfully run 5.25s and 6.5s.

I commented to let you know that i have a good sounding rig without spending big money or relocating speakers to the A-pilar. Do what you wish with that info, and best of luck dialing things in to your liking.

 

[CreepinDeth]

I appreciate ALL of the suggestions to investigate. Sorry that was just a brain vomit, lol.

Squirrel!!!

 

[skrelnik]

I set my gain with an oscillocscope to see the 1000hz clipping edge, then back off a bit.

Wires as follows
4gauge to amp & ground (grounded @ emergency brake)
14 gauge to all speakers

Been doing stereoz since I was 19
In the end, its about the angle, location, ratings of the speakers. I have Diamond Audio 6x9s on my Victory Magnum that aim up but even riding I mainly hear the fronts as they come straight at me, whereas the 6x9s are behind me aimed upwards

The issue Im having shopping for speakers lately is the misinformation / marketing scams manufacturers trying to list sensitivity ratings at 1m/2.83v without CLEARLY letting the consumer know its not 1m/1v Sensitivity.

Basically false advertising IMHO to list 3db higher on the rating

If that is your issue, stick with higher end BLAM speakers, look at Helix or Brax, or even Micro Precision. I put in there 5 series tweeters and love them. I scored some Focal 5.25" to pair with them and through the BLAM 5.25" in the overhead pods.

https://www.pssound.co.uk/shop/p/micro-precision-528-tweeter
Call Don over at Unexpected Creations and try to order through him. When buying through an authorized reseller prices are better than the advertised internet price.
https://unexpectedcreations.com/

 

[ChasUGC]

I run 4 5.25 150watt RMS CDT speakers with built-in crossovers, made in California(119.99/pr). They haven't blown out in over eight years. They power my PDX-V9. The bass is a concern with component or coaxial speakers because they are mainly Mid range and tweeters. You really need a subwoofer for good bass.

https://www.cdtaudio.com/coaxials/es5ex1.php

 

[freedom_in_4low]

I run 4 5.25 150watt RMS CDT speakers with built-in crossovers, made in California(119.99/pr). They haven't blown out in over eight years. They power my PDX-V9. The bass is a concern with component speakers because they are mainly Mid range and tweeters. You really need a subwoofer for good bass.

[URL]https://www.cdtaudio.com/coaxials/es5ex1.php[/URL]

Good to see CDT still out there. There are registered voters that weren't yet born when I was running their components in my 635CSi.

 

[ChasUGC]

Good to see CDT still out there. There are registered voters that weren't yet born when I was running their components in my 635CSi.

Yeah, my amps were blowing out all my speakers, until I got the CDT's like 8 years ago. The returns were accepted on my Infinity Kappas, and I haven't blown a CDT speaker in eight years. I recently upgraded my CDT's and they have improved in the last eight years. Now, the crossovers are built in, and the RMS rating has gone up with the improvements in them. Nothing comes close to their RMS rating especially with a 5.25 inch speaker. Cheers.

 

[CreepinDeth]

Those CDTs look good, but my concern is their low 87.2db sensitivity rating.

I just tried the Infinity Reference 5030 components with a 93db rating and I think Im happy for now.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07B8R61ZH/?tag=wranglerorg-20
They created a better stage of sound at my seated position with the tweeters on the dash pointed right at me.