John’s Consistently Inconsistent LJ Build

[jrfuda]

I had a weird issue pop-up yesterday.

I cranked the Jeep to get it into position to rinse all the mud off, but it was making a chattering sound. I quickly isolated the sound to the arm of the tensioner pulley bouncing. It was fine the day before when we went fishing.

A closer look revealed that the bolt holding the pulley to the arm is rubbing against the block (timing belt cover?). As a reminder, I have a York Mini OBA system using Off Road Only's install kit, so my tensioner is installed in a non-OE location. I reached out to Steve to see what he thinks and expect a reply shortly based on previous experience with him. I wonder if the ORO bracket shifted a tiny bit under use, which is causing the problem. The ORO bracket reuses the four OE alternate bracket holes plus two more previously unused holes, so it should be on there pretty good unless I screwed up something during install.

The cause of the chatter is the rubbing of the bolt head against block causes the arm to flex roughly between positions, resulting in a clicking sound. There is enough friction between the bolt head and block that, with the engine off, I can move the arm to a position and the friction will hold it in place until I move it so far that the tension from the belt suddenly springs it back to where the arm is resting against the stop. The belt is a very tight fit, so it is pretty much at or very near the stop when running. You can see it do this on its own with the engine running.

This first photo shows scratch marks left by the bolt head. These only became visible after I manually moved the tensioner arm enough to make marks outside the radius of the pulley.

This photo is the best shot I could get of the bolt head as it relates to the pulley and block. I wonder if I installed something wrong here... I think there is a washer between the bolt head and pulley bearing that was required to keep the pulley in place. A thinner washer or thinner bolt head would eliminate the problem. This is the OE arm and pulley remounted on the ORO bracket. A tiny spacer under the arm where it mounts to the bracket would likely solve the problem too.

 

[jrfuda]

I'm starting to think there is something non-standard about how the pulley is connected to the arm on the tensioner. Almost every photo I've seen show the bolt as a flat/recessed torx head bolt and not the hex bolt washer combo I have. The few that show a hex bolt show a rather shallow looking hex flange bolt. I wonder if one of the POs changed it out. Here are several pictures I pulled from other threads in the forum showing a different style of bolt, all of which appear to be recessed well into the pulley.

 

[Wildman]

I'm starting to think there is something non-standard about how the pulley is connected to the arm on the tensioner. Almost every photo I've seen show the bolt as a flat/recessed torx head bolt and not the hex bolt washer combo I have. The few that show a hex bolt show a rather shallow looking hex flange bolt. I wonder if one of the POs changed it out. Here are several pictures I pulled from other threads in the forum showing a different style of bolt, all of which appear to be recessed well into the pulley.

View attachment 597813

I'd agree that changing it to one with a flush bolt might be the ticket...

 

[jrfuda]

I see a bunch of obvious Chinese ones on Amazon in the $20-$30 range. Rockauto has Litens, Continental, Gates, and DAYCO branded ones in the $20-$40 range, not sure where they are actually manufactured, though.

Any suggestions?

 

[Wildman]

I see a bunch of obvious Chinese ones on Amazon in the $20-$30 range. Rockauto has Litens, Continental, Gates, and DAYCO branded ones in the $20-$40 range, not sure where they are actually manufactured, though.

Any suggestions?

I think I'd got to the parts store... As far as brand I really don't know.. I'd go for Gates Delco or Continental over others.

 

[jrfuda]

I went ahead and ordered a Gates since Amazon ended up having it for a lower price (plus free shipping) and will have it to me tomorrow. I don't have much time to get to a parts store, which is why I mostly work on the Jeep at 4 in the morning

 

[Wildman]

I went ahead and ordered a Gates since Amazon ended up having it for a lower price (plus free shipping) and will have it to me tomorrow. I don't have much time to get to a parts store, which is why I mostly work on the Jeep at 4 in the morning

Since I have to drive 25-30 minutes to get to a parts store so I understand. Gates isn't as great as they used to be but should be OK. Let's hope it's got the flush bolt like needed. I've ordered parts before that showed up not being what was in the picture.

 

[jrfuda]

While waiting for the new tensioner I worked on getting my spare to fit more tightly against the tailgate and as close to the bumper as possible. I also got most of the way through my heated seat install.

The wheels the PO put on the Jeep are from a JLR and have 6" of backspace, so there are 2" 5x4.5 to 5x5 spacers on the axles. The spare holder had no spacer but had this (pictured below) instead, which lifted the spare up about 1.5" and acted like a 2.5" spacer. I think it would have worked fine for 35x12.5 tires, but the tires the PO put on are 33x11.5 (technically 285/70 R17).

I replaced the spacer/riser with another 2" 5x4.5 to 5x5 spacer. I think I could have gotten away with a 1.5" thick one instead, which would have made the tailgate hinge act like another snubber, but it would have been tight - maybe too tight. The snubber spacers that came with the MOR/ryde Tailgate Reinforcement Kit worked perfect for the left and right side, but were too much for the bottom, which made it difficult to close the tailgate. I ended up using a piece of 1/2" starboard and two pieces of black rubber hose that I split into "sheets" to get the spacing on the bottom snubber just right.

Here is the spare against the bottom snubber

And a blurry shot from the passenger side. Something about the lighting is making my black soft top look brown (still black in the shadow). I think the sunrise was coming in through the garage door window.

 

[jrfuda]

I received the new tensioner yesterday and installed it this morning.

When I installed the ORO York Mini OBA bracket, it swapped out the bolt that held the tensioner to the engine (not the aforementioned bolt that was rubbing). The OE bolt was an 8x1.25 counter sunk torx head bolt; the bolt with the ORO kit was a 5/16" hex bolt and washer because the bracket was tapped for 5/16" and not 8x1.25. Since 8 mm is a tiny bit bigger than 5/16, I decided to re-tap the hole to 8x1.25 so I could use the OE bolt. The reason is because the OE bolt with its countersunk head completely fills the mounting hole on the tensioner whereas the 5/16" bolt has a gap all the way around. I think this will take any play out of the movement of the tensioner so it will be a true circle whereas it could have been slightly oval with the other bolt (very slightly since the two studs on the tensioner fit rather well into the corresponding holes on the bracket). Since my new threads could be a little shallow since I was reusing the 5/16" hole, I used some thread locker as a safety measure and was able to get the bolt torqued down appropriately without it slipping, so it should be good. I may go back and throw a nut on the back since the bolt actually sticks out of the back of the bracket as an extra margin of safety, but I do not think it will matter. Here's what the new Gates tensioner looks like.

 

[jrfuda]

Drove the Jeep to work this morning. No more rattling from the tensioner, so that's good. I tried driving in different lanes to see if it was still pulling to the right a little. In the center lane on a 3-lane highway, which should have little-to-no crown, there is still a very slight pull to the right... more of a drift. I wonder if I lengthen the front control arms on the passenger side a little to adjust the thrust angle if it would help (or maybe same on the back, how do you tell without an alignment shop? right now everything is square and centered as far as I can tell). I need to search the forum and maybe start a separate thread if I can't find a good answer. The drift is really tiny, but it is still more than my F150, which I know is a hard comparison due to the wheelbase difference.

Before I went to work, I spent some more times on my half door rebuild. Here's shot of what I started with from earlier in the thread. They were originally red but covered with bed liner when I bought them for $250.

Both doors were a little banged-up, so I beat the dents pout as best I could and used a little Bondo to smooth things out.

I primed, painted with stone white and top coated with 2K gloss clear. The doors appear to be from different years as they are not mirror images on the inside and have different style door seals.

Here is part way through reassembly. I also added some sound deadening material inside.

Here is the driver door with its interior panel not yet installed. I stripped the interior panels as well and ordered some color matched SEM interior paint and SEM matte clear coat. I bought new hinge screws and think I will leave them black. I bought enough that I can replace the others for consistency.

Here is a test fit of the door on the driver side. The inner panel is still not installed, and I need to add the hardware for my new BullDawg sliding window uppers (still in their box, but checked for damage and completeness). I left the hinge screws loose until I had the door hung and then tightened them once everything was lined-up nicely. The door sat proud of the tub when it was closed, so I loosened the screws on the latch and tweaked the position until the door closed flush. I then replaced my full door. It fits decently, but now takes a little more effort to close since the latch is further in. I may need to back the latch location back out a 1/16" in or so... find a happy medium so both doors seal well and look good. I assume I may have to do more tweaking once I actually have the upper on to ensure everything is lined-up nicely and seals well. I really like the look of the half doors. I have a set of new mirrors that will stay on these doors for when I go back and forth between the full doors.

 

[jrfuda]

I made a pair of "UNLIMITED" logos to replace the logos covered by the MC sliders. I used my wife's Cricut (Hers, but I've done all the design and printing of anything it's ever made). I used matte white outdoor vinyl. It was a little tricky getting all the filler out of the outline and I almost lost one of the letters "I" when I installed it but I think it looks pretty good. The "M" does not match the original lettering, but the rest of the letters lined up almost perfectly when I was manipulating the graphics and overlaying them on photos I took of the original logo. I need to clean off my guidelines and some stray antiseize that is smeared off of the bolt above the "N." There several other places suffering from smears of antiseize as well.

 

[jrfuda]

Finished rebuilding my half doors and have them installed.

Here is the passenger door with some sound deadening on the interior and in the "low spots" on the inner panel.

The driver door fit very well with a little tweaking. It sits a little lower than the passenger side (I may need to tweak it) but it has a really good seal all the way around. The passenger side (did not take any pictures) sits a little higher, but the top of the top half of the upper door does not seal as tightly as the driver side. I may need to manipulate the hinges a bit (the angle of the "tubes" on the hinges, not how the hinges attach to the door) so the top of the door will "lean in" a bit more. I'm not sure if it matters, though, there is no light coming in at the top seal when viewed from the inside, but I think it could let water in or maybe be noisy on the road.

One other thing, When I opened the doors this morning, I noticed the lights were dim and confirmed that battery was a bit drained when I connected a charger. The battery has been holding a charge just fine, so this is something new. The only thing I can think that could have caused it was I was messing with the winch Friday morning and left the isolator turned-on. Is it possible the solenoid in the isolator was pulling enough to drain the battery over 2 days? The only other new electrical item installed in the past week were the heated seats, but they are on a relay connected to a switched circuit, so they won't come on with the ignition off, and neither of them was on anyway. The only other thing I can think of is that I did something to the alternator when I changed out the tensioner last week and drained the battery driving around on Friday. I will need to crank the Jeep and see if the alternator is working as it is supposed to tomorrow.

Here are the rest of the door pics.

 

[jrfuda]

Some digging around the internet has revealed that the Warn isolator I have in my rig draws 3.5 amps when engaged. That would definitely cause a drop in my battery over the weekend. I bet the low voltage cutoff circuit in Rough Country MLC 6 prevented the battery from being completely dead; lights were dimmer than usual, but battery charger showed about 75% capacity, which is still not great for a conventional lead-acid battery.

 

[jrfuda]

After the battery was fully charged yesterday, I disconnected the charger. It was still fully charged this morning as confirmed by reconnecting the charger, which immediately indicated full. I then tested the voltage with the Jeep off and running at idle, everything looked good so there is no alternator issue. These leads me back to my earlier theory that leaving the winch isolator engaged drained the battery over 72 hours.

I messed around with the passenger half door trying to get a tighter seal on the upper half of the upper door. after comparing the driver and passenger sides, I realized I just needed to tighten the three bolts that hold the upper to the lower and the problem was solved. I was afraid of over tightening them initially and just did not have them snug enough.

The last thing I did today was install a Tuffy hood lock. I had experimented with placement yesterday and kept getting the latch stuck on the lock. Since I had more time today, I was able to figure out the angles needed to ensure the latch cleared when the lock was unlocked and that I could easily get the key in. One of the issues was caused by the latch being bent to the passenger side a bit, which causes it to hang on the locking mechanism. Straightening it out solved the problem. Angling the lock as pictured also helped with key insertion and provided a comfortable amount of clearance so, when unlocked, you cant tell the lock is there.

Out of the box, the lock is held on by a single 1/4" bolt, two washers, and a nylock nut. This configuration is hard to install and adjust. The single bolt also introduces a point of failure because the lock can rotate and/or slide in the oval hole. To remedy these limitations, I first drilled out the 1/4"-ish hole to accommodate an M8 rivnut and installed the rivnut and lock. I then got the lock positioned exactly as I wanted it and marked the location of the second hole (the second hole was in the lock but not on the grill) and installed a rivnut there as well. The bolts are flange head and dig into the lock a bit when tight, so the lock should stay in place. I added a bit of blue thread locker for good measure. I had read where others had issues with these Tuffy hood locks and think these adjustments solve all the problems. I also had the hood lock keyed the same as my Tuffy glove box, so I only have to have one key.

 

[jrfuda]

Did not do too much this morning.

I lengthened the front and rear lower control arms on the passenger side to correct the thrust angle a little to see if I could fix the drift to the right.

When I originally setup my suspension, I measured center-to-center on the lower control arms to get the axles square. Today I repeated the measurements but used the holes that used to hold the OE transmission skid for the front axle and the rear under door body mount for the rear axle. These measurements showed that both axles were angled in maybe 1/16"- 3/32" on the passenger side (so the wheelbase was 1/8"-3/16" shorter in the passenger side). I repeated the measurements multiple times, but I don't know if there is that much precision in where those holes/mounts are placed, so this could not mean anything.

I lengthened both lower passenger control arms one full turn and reset the lock nuts. I did not touch the uppers at this time.

I drove it to work today to see if this helped drift, and also to see how the noise in the Jeep changed after I swapped in the half doors.

The control arm adjustment made a difference but did not completely correct the drift. On city streets with significant crown, the jeep still drifted right if I released the steering wheel, but it was improved. In the past, my tires would be in the gutter almost immediately if I released the wheel, now there was almost a second before this happened. My F150 drifts right on these same streets, but not as much. On the highway there was significant improvement. In some spots there was no drift at all, in others there was still slight drift to the right.

I think overall handling improved as well, but this could have been placebo effect. In the past I think I had to make more small corrections to stay on track.

I may lengthen the passenger side upper and lower rear control arm one turn tomorrow to see if I can dial the last bit of drift out. Today, I started to feel a little resistance in the lowers near the end of the full turn, so any additional turns will likely require adjustment of the uppers as well to ensure nothing is binding.

Finally, I was very happy with the half doors. I actually think they were quieter than the full doors. The driver side was dead quiet, but I think I could hear a little rush of air coming from the passenger side. I need to go for a ride in the passenger seat to see if I can isolate the whooshing sound.

 

[jrfuda]

When I swapped out all of my signal and brake lights for LEDs, I swapped out the OE flasher for the GCD flasher MC sells to go along with their LED front marker/signal lights. Since installing them I always had an extra second or so of clicking coming from the flasher after the signal disengaged. The lights otherwise worked properly and did not blink along with the residual clicking.

When I cranked the Jeep yesterday to drive home from work, there was steady clicking coming from the flasher. The clicking persisted after a couple of power off and restarts and I decided to just deal with it until I got home. The lights worked fine in marker, signal, brake, and hazard mode and the purposeful clicking associated with signal and hazards would override the background clicking the flasher was making, but only for as long as the signal/hazard was engaged.

Some searching last night led me down two paths.

1. The GCD flasher was a poor choice, and I should get a Novita LM470
2. My MFS is going bad

What's everyone's' thoughts? I will probably grab an LM470 since I already have a stop at the auto parts store planned to grab a headlight bulb for my wife's car and the auto parts stores appear to have them in stock and for a better price than online. If that does not work, I will look at fixing my MFS or getting a new one.

 

[jrfuda]

I lengthened the passenger-side upper and lower rear control arms one turn this morning to see if I could tweak the thrust angle a little more. I do not think it made any difference when I drove to work today (first time I've driven the Jeep to work twice in a week). I think I may be at the point of diminishing returns. I've only driven one other TJ/LJ in my life, the first one I looked at when I started shopping, and mine rides so much better compared to that; it is probably as good as it will get. It's significantly better than when I first bought it as well.

There was not continuous clicking of the flasher today, so that is good. It still suffered from "lingering click" for a second or two after I completed a turn or lane change, so the flasher will still get replaced this weekend.

 

[jrfuda]

I just realized that, since my driver rear tire is practically brand-new and the other three are probably 75% spent, that it is probably causing that last bit of drift to the right. The reasons that tire is practically brand new are:

1. Former tire that was in that position is bald (currently my spare until I decide on wheels and get new tires)
2. PO either never rotated tires or didn't include spare in rotation (I'm thinking never since only that one tire was bald)

I believe I mentioned earlier in the thread that the tire was likely bald since the rear axle was not centered since the PO did not install adjustable track bars when they lifted the Jeep (now corrected).

 

[jrfuda]

Flasher issued solved.

 

[jrfuda]

As I stated earlier in the thread, one of the main uses for my rig will be use on the beach for surf fishing, which is why I installed hitch receivers on the front and rear. I opted for receivers instead of bumpers with integrated receivers because I wanted to keep the stock bumpers, and I needed a robust enough solution in the rear to occasionally exploit the 3500 lb tow capacity of the LJ to tow my boat or a small travel trailer. The front receiver pretty much acts as a steering box skid as well. While the receivers are permanently attached, the gear below will only be used at the beach, with maybe the rear cargo carrier used for occasional camping/overlanding scenarios.

For the rear I needed to make the hitch swing-away so, when using a cargo carrier or bike rack, I can easily move it out of the way to access the tailgate. My cargo carrier and bike rack are both manufactured by 1UP USA, They recently acquired Recon Racks who made the RakAttach, which is supposed to be the best swing away hitch made. I received mine last week and it is extremely robust. Here are some photos of it installed along with the 1UP USA cargo carrier. I've had the cargo carrier for about 5 years and it works great. I can transfer up to two of the trays from my bike rack to it to also carry two bike in addition to cargo. The RakAttach can hold up to 275 lbs. I stood on the cargo carrier with the RakAttach in various positions and it did not flinch. It is also reversable by flipping it over, so you can have it swing either way. I have it swinging with the door but may have it swing opposite when I actually use it, so the cargo will face the beach if I the driver side faces the beach. In the pics I could not swing it out any further becuase some junk on the side of the garage was in the way.

I also bought an Angler's Fish-N-Mate 6-Holder Fold-Down rack for the front. They area North Carolina company and I have several of their products, including a highly modified version of their Senior Surf Fishing cart that will see significantly less use now that the Jeep will take its place. Here it is mounted on the front receiver in the folded-up and folded-down positions. I'm not one of those guys driving down the road with my 10- and 12-foot surf rods fully assembled in the holder. I transport my rods most of the way to the beach out of the wind and might put them in the holders for the drive from the campground or hotel if it's a low-speed route, even then I'll have them dissembled and strapped together so I don't have to worry about them whipping in the wind or hitting powerlines.