Found this long tube for Cherokee's on ebay and thought something like this would be nice for the stroker going in my 97 tj? Haven't seen a true long tube header like this before. Any thoughts on the effect it would have on an off idle torque build?
Interesting long tube header design
- Thread starter Rickyd
- Start date
You will have minimal benefits on a straight 6 engine. Headers really only improve higher end breathing. Also the lack of flex joints has been shown to increase exaust manifold/header cracking at the mounting flange.
1.Stroker with an edelbrock head and a cam isn't a stock motor.
2. The primary length and split design won't have the same forces on it at the collector as a shorty header
3. Lets keep it to stroker engine dynamics. It is what i made the thread for
2. The primary length and split design won't have the same forces on it at the collector as a shorty header
3. Lets keep it to stroker engine dynamics. It is what i made the thread for
Dougj169
Member
A header is still made for a high rpm engine. Regardless of anything sort of forced induction. If you plan to be running over 5,000 rpm (really over 6,000) then it may help. Short of that and there is no real benefit to a header. Especially a long tube design.
If it were me, I would stay for away from those eBay headers.
American Racing headers makes a great solution that you may be interested in and apparently
AMH has a customer service line where you can actaully talk to someone who has been working in the modified 4.0 world for more than a few years now.
@Chris can likely divulge, as he researched the hell out of aftermarket headers and came up with the AMH being near the top. I had no idea a solution like this existed until he posted about it. Seems very well built.
https://americanracingheaders.com/products/jeep-1998-2006-tj-4-0l-long-system
American Racing headers makes a great solution that you may be interested in and apparently
AMH has a customer service line where you can actaully talk to someone who has been working in the modified 4.0 world for more than a few years now.
@Chris can likely divulge, as he researched the hell out of aftermarket headers and came up with the AMH being near the top. I had no idea a solution like this existed until he posted about it. Seems very well built.
https://americanracingheaders.com/products/jeep-1998-2006-tj-4-0l-long-system
Brian83
TJ Enthusiast
Call Nick at ARH and talk to him. His headers have been dyno proven on stroker engines.
Thanks for the replys!
The header calculator for primary length i found is ((360-exhaust duration @.050)×850)÷ (peak torque rpm -3) =primary length.
I'm getting 40ish for 3000peak and 50ish for 2500peak.
That is for a street motor.race motor you plug in peak hp instead of torque.
There is a primary size calculator as well
The header calculator for primary length i found is ((360-exhaust duration @.050)×850)÷ (peak torque rpm -3) =primary length.
I'm getting 40ish for 3000peak and 50ish for 2500peak.
That is for a street motor.race motor you plug in peak hp instead of torque.
There is a primary size calculator as well
So basically the longer tubes are for timing the exhaust pulses at lower rpms which is what i always thought. So when i saw really long primaries i was stoked for a low rpm build.
I do agree on the quality of chinese stuff but for 180$ i thought I'd try it with some flex joints in the exhaust and weld a tab that bolts to the bellhousing to take strain off like many OEM's
I did see the system above before but the primaries are still really short. To me the only thing that makes sense is the double bellows stocker or something that has long primaries like the pic i shared.
I know it could be turd polishing but I'm committed to that path when i started modding my six instead of dropping in the fresh 6.0l/nv4500 combo in my garage
I do agree on the quality of chinese stuff but for 180$ i thought I'd try it with some flex joints in the exhaust and weld a tab that bolts to the bellhousing to take strain off like many OEM's
I did see the system above before but the primaries are still really short. To me the only thing that makes sense is the double bellows stocker or something that has long primaries like the pic i shared.
I know it could be turd polishing but I'm committed to that path when i started modding my six instead of dropping in the fresh 6.0l/nv4500 combo in my garage
I'd be more concerned with finding a header that won't crack vs getting every ounce of power from a header, especially for the price of the ARH. I know I'd be super pissed if I spent $1300+ on a header and it cracked just a few years later. I don't see any warranty info on their website, anyone know what if any ARH warranty is?
I've also got the edel head on my mini-stoker and the M.O.R.E. engine brackets and mounts, so whatever I find needs to play well and clearance around all that. I've thought about just getting another cheapie ebay header with the #1 and #6 bellows, the first one I got has lasted a long time and has just one small crack at a collector. I'd be curious to see how long a header with bellows on each pipe would last actually.
I've also got the edel head on my mini-stoker and the M.O.R.E. engine brackets and mounts, so whatever I find needs to play well and clearance around all that. I've thought about just getting another cheapie ebay header with the #1 and #6 bellows, the first one I got has lasted a long time and has just one small crack at a collector. I'd be curious to see how long a header with bellows on each pipe would last actually.
Brian83
TJ Enthusiast
Lifetime, they claim it is so well built that it will never crack. ARH are some of the best headers money can buy for any application. One day I'll have one on my jeep. Until then I'll just keep swapping the AutoZone manifold every 14 months
You'd definitely need a support bracket down at the collector if you had a bunch of bellows.
Anybody remember the design your own header kits where you bent some kind of flex tubes to fit and used expanding foam to make it rigid.then sent the mockup in to be built. Cool but probably $$$$$
Anybody remember the design your own header kits where you bent some kind of flex tubes to fit and used expanding foam to make it rigid.then sent the mockup in to be built. Cool but probably $$$$$
I will say this once and I won't say it again.
There is NO BETTER HEADER OUT THERE FOR THE 4.0 THAN THE ARH HEADERS that @Fouledplugs linked to above.
I researched the shit out of this, and those are them. If you want real performance out of the 4.0, you need actual long tube headers with the correct size primaries, etc. Those ones designed by ARH are the shit.
Golen uses them on his 500+ HP 4.0 supercharged stroker builds.
Any of that shit on eBay is cheap Chinese shit, and if you buy it, you will greatly regret it, I can promise you this ten fold.
Those ARH headers are made in New York, by hand, from AMERICAN MADE steel, not imported Chinese steel. Nick who runs ARH is a stand-up guy, and probably more pro-American than most people you'll ever meet. If it's Chinese steel, he won't touch it.
Those ones you posted in the original post are shit quality metal that will break in very short order (mine lasted no more than a year before cracking). The ARH headers are warrantied for life, and those guys stand behind their headers. I've had ARH headers on all of my past muscle cars, and I can attest to their quality and fitment.
There is NO BETTER HEADER OUT THERE FOR THE 4.0 THAN THE ARH HEADERS that @Fouledplugs linked to above.
I researched the shit out of this, and those are them. If you want real performance out of the 4.0, you need actual long tube headers with the correct size primaries, etc. Those ones designed by ARH are the shit.
Golen uses them on his 500+ HP 4.0 supercharged stroker builds.
Any of that shit on eBay is cheap Chinese shit, and if you buy it, you will greatly regret it, I can promise you this ten fold.
Those ARH headers are made in New York, by hand, from AMERICAN MADE steel, not imported Chinese steel. Nick who runs ARH is a stand-up guy, and probably more pro-American than most people you'll ever meet. If it's Chinese steel, he won't touch it.
Those ones you posted in the original post are shit quality metal that will break in very short order (mine lasted no more than a year before cracking). The ARH headers are warrantied for life, and those guys stand behind their headers. I've had ARH headers on all of my past muscle cars, and I can attest to their quality and fitment.
I betcha i could get you to say it again, lol.
I'm sure they're the cat's meow, the bee's knees, the real mccoy, but in all seriousness that's a ton of coin for a MANIFOLD. When checking the link I was expecting $700-800 and 'bout fell over at double that. I thought $1600 for my complete aluminum head was a bit steep. Also, in the image the downpipe doesn't look like it turns far enough forward to get around the oil pan, or is that just an optical illusion from the picture's angle?
In looking at manifold options it appears some people have converted from early one piece manifolds to the later 4.0 that uses two small cast iron stubby manifolds with a twin downpipe collector. Used stubby cast manifolds are all over for dirt cheap, any power loss using that setup?
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In the world of long tube headers, that isn't that much at all. If you were to go have a shop custom build you long tube headers from scratch, you'd be looking at around 2-3k. In addition, a good set of Kooks or ARH headers for an LS engine are around the same price, as with most muscle / pony cars. I'm talking about good quality headers too, not Chineseium ones.
The weak point of the 4.0 is the cylinder head and the lack of flow. Golen has proven this time-and-time again. Open up the cylinder head, add some long tube headers, and you've probably got a good chance of gaining over 50rwhp just from that.
Of course I realize most Jeep people will gawk at that price because it's a Jeep, not a Mustang, Camaro, etc. However, for those who are serious about gaining power from the 4.0, this IS the best header on the market (and the only one other than the aFe that is actually a full long tube design).
The warranty on all ARH headers is lifetime. Call Nick up and ask him, nicest guy you’ll ever talk to. He and I have talked in great deal and he has mentioned time and time again that if anyone can break these headers (even from wheeling) he will replace them no questions asked.
Do some research into ARH. These guys build some of the best headers on the market for V8s and other performance cars. Their warranty is as solid as they come.
I had a set of their headers on both my Z06 and my Camaro, and I can attest to how well they are built.
I don’t stand to make a dime from this. I just hate seeing people waste their money on those shitty Chineseum eBay junk headers. Been down that path before and I’d never do it again. In most cases they’ll crack within a year, even without ever leaving the pavement.
That's just a typo to my knowledge. This was pointed out somewhere before in another thread. Why ARH hasn't updated probably has to do with the fact they don't sell that many of them.
ejay
TJ Addict
I'm going to 2nd (or 3rd) the lack of flex joints observation. These may be real nice but I've not seen a weld that doesn't fail on a pre 00 4.0 manifold without them. And at that cost, I wouldn't risk the chance.
Sure are shiny, though.
Sure are shiny, though.
Lets take this down a few notches eh?
There is no one size fits all anything for motors,including headers. 500hp forced induction? If that header works great for that application it definitely isn't for a low rpm motor.
Fact is the lower your torque or hp peak the longer your primaries should be. Then theres the primary pipe sizing and exhaust size.did i read right that system has a 3" final size?
I do like a lifetime guarantee though.
There is no one size fits all anything for motors,including headers. 500hp forced induction? If that header works great for that application it definitely isn't for a low rpm motor.
Fact is the lower your torque or hp peak the longer your primaries should be. Then theres the primary pipe sizing and exhaust size.did i read right that system has a 3" final size?
I do like a lifetime guarantee though.