I think I crushed my inner pinion bearing

[SailorEd]

Whep, I may have crushed my new inner pinion bearing. Is that even possible?

What I did:
I installed new pinion races in my 2003 Dana 44 rear axle; outer race wasn't an issue... inner race wasn't friendly to me.
I pressed onto the ORIGINAL pinion the inner bearing with the ORIGINAL OEM spacer/shim that rides between the bearing and the pinion gear.
I slipped on the ORIGINAL OEM pinion shims and fed it all through the housing.
I slipped on the outer bearing and yolk, spun on the old (i.e. setup) nut/washer, and snugged it all up.
I torqued it all to 170 ft.lbs to test things out.
(BTW, the BFH Garage YouTube vids are amazing but evidently I missed something.)

The issue:
When I test spun the pinion by hand it had zero preload. Although it seemed to free spin without issue, it had a noise... like a slight thumping or bumping. That was absolutely coming from the inner bearing/race.
So I am guessing that since I didn't have enough preload shims in place (because I had zero preload), I may have ruined the inner bearing/race. The race was new looking at install but now it's got a scuff band.

Thoughts on this please?

 

[Chris]

Whep, I may have crushed my new inner pinion bearing. Is that even possible?

What I did:
I installed new pinion races in my 2003 Dana 44 rear axle; outer race wasn't an issue... inner race wasn't friendly to me.
I pressed onto the ORIGINAL pinion the inner bearing with the ORIGINAL OEM spacer/shim that rides between the bearing and the pinion gear.
I slipped on the ORIGINAL OEM pinion shims and fed it all through the housing.
I slipped on the outer bearing and yolk, spun on the old (i.e. setup) nut/washer, and snugged it all up.
I torqued it all to 170 ft.lbs to test things out.
(BTW, the BFH Garage YouTube vids are amazing but evidently I missed something.)

The issue:
When I test spun the pinion by hand it had zero preload. Although it seemed to free spin without issue, it had a noise... like a slight thumping or bumping. That was absolutely coming from the inner bearing/race.
So I am guessing that since I didn't have enough preload shims in place (because I had zero preload), I may have ruined the inner bearing/race. The race was new looking at install but now it's got a scuff band.

Thoughts on this please?

It's definitely possible to damage the inner pinion bearing if you didn't have the proper preload set up during installation. When the preload is too low, it can cause the bearing to not seat properly, which can lead to additional movement and ultimately scuffing or crushing of the bearing race.

Make sure you recheck the amount of preload on the pinion bearing. It's crucial to have this set correctly for everything to work smoothly.

Since you mentioned the inner race now has a scuff band, that’s generally a sign of wear or damage. If the noise persists, I would suggest you replace the bearing and race to avoid any further damage down the line.

It sounds like you might need to add or adjust the shims to achieve the correct preload. Keep in mind that while reusing original shims can sometimes work, it's often necessary to adjust them during a rebuild, especially if you've replaced parts.

After you make any adjustments, always do a test spin of the pinion. You should feel some resistance when turning it by hand, indicating proper preload. If it still spins too freely or makes noise, reassess the setup.

Hopefully, you can get it sorted out without having to pull everything apart!

 

[KennethS]

I torqued it all to 170 ft.lbs to test things out.

I am not a differential guru, but I thought the procedure was torque the pinion nut to achieve a specific inch-pound rotational torque on the pinion gear.

 

[SailorEd]

I am not a differential guru, but I thought the procedure was torque the pinion nut to achieve a specific inch-pound rotational torque on the pinion gear.

I’m no guru either but that procedure is for crush sleeve applications. This Dana 44 uses shims to set the preload.

 

[SailorEd]

It's definitely possible to damage the inner pinion bearing if you didn't have the proper preload set up during installation. When the preload is too low, it can cause the bearing to not seat properly, which can lead to additional movement and ultimately scuffing or crushing of the bearing race.

Make sure you recheck the amount of preload on the pinion bearing. It's crucial to have this set correctly for everything to work smoothly.

Since you mentioned the inner race now has a scuff band, that’s generally a sign of wear or damage. If the noise persists, I would suggest you replace the bearing and race to avoid any further damage down the line.

It sounds like you might need to add or adjust the shims to achieve the correct preload. Keep in mind that while reusing original shims can sometimes work, it's often necessary to adjust them during a rebuild, especially if you've replaced parts.

After you make any adjustments, always do a test spin of the pinion. You should feel some resistance when turning it by hand, indicating proper preload. If it still spins too freely or makes noise, reassess the setup.

Hopefully, you can get it sorted out without having to pull everything apart!

Thanks brother… I will order a shim kit and new bearing and give it another shot!

 

[hosejockey61]

I torqued it all to 170 ft.lbs to test things out.
(BTW, the BFH Garage YouTube vids are amazing but evidently I missed something.)

The issue:
When I test spun the pinion by hand it had zero preload. Although it seemed to free spin without issue, it had a noise... like a slight thumping or bumping. That was absolutely coming from the inner bearing/race.
So I am guessing that since I didn't have enough preload shims in place (because I had zero preload), I may have ruined the inner bearing/race. The race was new looking at install but now it's got a scuff band.

Thoughts on this please?

You certainly missed something. When you say it had zero pre-load, you mean that it sound freely by hand or it wouldn't spin at all?

The TJ Dana 44 uses shims to establish pinion preload. Can you describe the process you used to determine the correct pre-load?

When establishing pinion pre-load, didn't go straight to the desired torque spec. If you do that, and don't have enough shims in place, you can damage your bearings. Sneak up on it and check every so often.

My guess from reading this is that you threw some shims in there (not enough) and torqued it to 170 without checking causing damage to your bearings.

 

[SailorEd]

You certainly missed something. When you say it had zero pre-load, you mean that it sound freely by hand or it wouldn't spin at all?

The TJ Dana 44 uses shims to establish pinion preload. Can you describe the process you used to determine the correct pre-load?

When establishing pinion pre-load, didn't go straight to the desired torque spec. If you do that, and don't have enough shims in place, you can damage your bearings. Sneak up on it and check every so often.

My guess from reading this is that you threw some shims in there (not enough) and torqued it to 170 without checking causing damage to your bearings.

Yessir I think you’re right. I threw in shims, not enough, and went up to 170
By zero pre-load I meant after the 170 it spun very freely by hand but made a not nice thumping or jumping sound. That’s when I felt I probably crunched the bearing.

I’m guessing as a newby, and not having enough shims, I plain’ol f’d it up.

So now I’ll buy a new bearing and a shim kit. I’ll remove the inner bearing, knock out the wasted race, install news ones, load up on a lot of shims (because how does one know where to start?), and try to set a correct preload from there. Would you say that sounds like a plan?

 

[hosejockey61]

Yessir I think you’re right. I threw in shims, not enough, and went up to 170
By zero pre-load I meant after the 170 it spun very freely by hand but made a not nice thumping or jumping sound. That’s when I felt I probably crunched the bearing.

I’m guessing as a newby, and not having enough shims, I plain’ol f’d it up.

So now I’ll buy a new bearing and a shim kit. I’ll remove the inner bearing, knock out the wasted race, install news ones, load up on a lot of shims (because how does one know where to start?), and try to set a correct preload from there. Would you say that sounds like a plan?

So if you were able to spin it by hand, then you didn't crush your bearings. If you crushed them, you wouldn't have been able to turn the pinion as it would've been to tight.

Something else is going on here that you aren't articulating very well...

Any pictures of the race?

 

[SailorEd]

Here are pix of the races, and bearings.
I reinstalled it this morning, snugged it up, and recorded a video so you can hear the sound it makes.

 

[williambmac]

did you use any gear lube on the bearings and race? Everything looks dry.
Also, are you sure the races are seated all the way?

 

[SailorEd]

did you use any gear lube on the bearings and race? Everything looks dry.
Also, are you sure the races are seated all the way?

Yep, I used a light coating. For the pix I wiped it all dry.

Good question on race seating. I think so. I got good, solid sounds on the final blows with the seating tool. I used a mechanics mirror to look from behind each of them but maybe eyes can’t tell.

 

[psrivats]

It's definitely possible to damage the inner pinion bearing if you didn't have the proper preload set up during installation. When the preload is too low, it can cause the bearing to not seat properly, which can lead to additional movement and ultimately scuffing or crushing of the bearing race.

Make sure you recheck the amount of preload on the pinion bearing. It's crucial to have this set correctly for everything to work smoothly.

Since you mentioned the inner race now has a scuff band, that’s generally a sign of wear or damage. If the noise persists, I would suggest you replace the bearing and race to avoid any further damage down the line.

It sounds like you might need to add or adjust the shims to achieve the correct preload. Keep in mind that while reusing original shims can sometimes work, it's often necessary to adjust them during a rebuild, especially if you've replaced parts.

After you make any adjustments, always do a test spin of the pinion. You should feel some resistance when turning it by hand, indicating proper preload. If it still spins too freely or makes noise, reassess the setup.

Hopefully, you can get it sorted out without having to pull everything apart!

Where is the real Chris and where are you holding him hostage?

 

[hosejockey61]

Get your pre-load right first. The video means nothing until that is done. Shoot for 16-20 in/lbs. Since you had zero pre-load, the bearings can rattle since they're loose.

 

[SailorEd]

Alright, thanks so much for all the input!
I'll order shims and work on that pre-load. The bad news is I'm traveling for 3 weeks so I'll pick this up when I'm back.

 

[hosejockey61]

Keep us posted.

 

[SailorEd]

Update:
Well my flight to Chicago was pushed so I had time to do some Jeep work (and spend time with my other love for VDay) before I have to catch my new flight! Gotta be smart ya know.
I ordered a pack of shims, did some trial and error, and got it to 20 in-lbs… it was either 10 or 30 with different configs so I landed on the 20. When I’m back I’ll continue working on it.

 

[SailorEd]

Super dumb question… how do I know if the carrier is fully seated? I got it in with some healthy smacks, and the bearing caps are torqued to 80 but when I peeked into the tube I can see more of the roller bearings on one side (at like 10 o’clock) than the other sides and I’m looking down as centered as possible.

Thanks!

 

[hosejockey61]

When I do it, I can feel when they hit bottom. Then I throw some strong whacks in there to make sure. Tightening the bearing caps after will finish the job. I wouldn't worry to much about that but I would definitely pull it out to see if anything was in the race seat.

 

[SailorEd]

OK here's the final final... it's all back together and running nicely! While I was at it I did the rear brakes too; 1hr for the one side, 15 min for the other!
Anyway, thank you all very much for your time and patience with my questions and being green at this. Sure I coulda taken it to a local shop and have been done with it but I love learning new stuff Thanks again!