Novak Conversions Jeep Wrangler TJ engine mounts

Chainsaw's Dumpster Fire

chainsaw

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May 12, 2025
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Location
British Columbia
Well... I had a plan, but as they say (or something like it anyways): No plan survives first contact....

I figured I post this up as a Build Thread, because that's where it's heading.
I think I want to use this as a place to get feedback on my idea's from those who've probably already been there and done that. I've spent a bit of my limited spare time surfing around, and tend to like the overall no nonsense attitude around here. A bit reminiscent of some other old 4x4 websites for which I used to be willing to make time.

The short version is:
I bought a 2004 TJ Unlimited with the intention of doing minimal maintenance and driving it around. I'd figure out what and when to mod as the issues presented themselves. The general idea being to build it (over time, and being able to enjoy the process) towards being a competent crawler on 35-ish inch tires
Turns out there's very few parts that don't need maintenance or repair. Hence the name.

A bit of my overall back story might be helpful:
I'm not new to wheeling. 30 years ago (when they were still affordable) I had a '77 Bronco. Drove the daylights out of it, and collected a bunch of stuff to make it into a quality driver/crawler. Around the same time a lovely lady came along that was rather distracting. (We've been together for 25+ years now). Managed to get out from my EB investment for what I had into it. Took a few years off 4x4ing to Autocross, married, moved a few times, had a really well built Bronco 2 crawler, changed employers a few times, bought a Volvo wagon, had a kid, bought a townhouse, bought a Suburban, and sold the Bronco 2.
Made it a couple years before the itch to go wheeling came back. Bought a '48 CJ2A and started making plans and collecting parts. (This might be important later.) Somewhere along the way I sold the Volvo & picked up a Dodge Megacab 2500 diesel & a 24' cargo trailer.
Inspired by some of the super cool stretched Flat Fender builds on that other website (arguably back when it was cool) I have built up quite and extensive pile of interesting bits, which is no small feat when you have a one car garage. My ambitious plans keep running up on the reality that my strata council might not approve of a major fabrication project going on, and I realized that if I wanted to build something with linked suspension with a 100-ish inch wheelbase, that a TJU might be the "better" starting point.
I just barely missed out on two VERY well built Rubicon's within a few hundred kilometers of me. They were priced accordingly for well sorted rigs, but not being "new" I feel either of them would have been worth the asking price.
Then a Sport came up locally. (at a very reasonable price). I will concede that I should have looked a little deeper that I did before taking it off the PO's hands, but I feel like I got a good enough deal that I'm not really upset about it.

The day I brought it home:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/UhXgamVoGFziNWcTA

It appears to have a 4" RC lift consisting of lower control arms, springs, shocks and track bar relocation brackets. It has worn out 265-75-16 studded Firestone Destination MT's, and a transfer case/skid plate drop. It came with a soft top, bikini top and the half doors. It had a broken front window & desperately needed a cleaning out. The original plan was to clean it out, change all the fluids, replace the window and tires & drive it for the summer.
On the 45 min drive home I initially noticed it had some squeaks and groans as you might expect from a "used" 4x4. About half way home I stopped at a traffic light and heard the buzzer/saw the Check Gauges light only to realize my new prize apparently had zero oil pressure at idle. Clicking it into neutral, and just giving it the slightest bit of throttle brought it back to normal. Anything but idle results in normal oil pressure. A quick bit of interweb research when I got home revealed the fairly common oil pressure sending unit problem. I remained cautiously optimistic.
As it only came with one key, I went into my local locksmith's to have a couple more cut & programmed. On the way home there's an overpass with quite a stepdown bump as you come off of it. It hadn't been a problem on the way home earlier in the week... and while intellectually aware of death wobble, I had never had the privilege of experiencing it in person.... Let's just say that was "interesting". I was in the slow lane of a two lane highway approaching a merge lane full of traffic coming on from the right, cars coming by me on the left, and something Freighjtliner-ish behind me. I slowed a bit, and rode it out for about half a kilometer until I could safely pull off and slow down enough to get it to stop. I've driven plenty of death traps and probably done more than my share of dumb $#@% in vehicles, so I just made sure to avoid the rest of the potholes on the way home and informed my wife she wasn't allowed to drive it until after that particular issue was addressed!

Summer being my busier season at work, I quickly realized I didn't really have the time (or space in my garage (currently) to do the baseline stuff, so I booked it in with my local shop to do the baseline stuff. So change all the fluids, give it a once over, and check the oil pressure sender. There's one ball joint that just slightly sloppy, and the steering box seems pretty worn out. Front diff = chipped tooth. Rear diff = full of filings. Trans and transfer case might be ok. Oil pressure is not a sender problem. Drop the pan = pickup full of what appears to be peeled paint, so he cleans it up and adds a high volume pump for good measure. Hot oil pressure still = 0. I did get the window replaced & removed all the extra tops from inside, but haven't really had time to give it any more attention I've had to put dealing with Jeep issues on hold for a minute, as my (daily driver) Dodge needed some attention first.

So that's about where it sits today....

(Edit: I think I'm going to have to figure out how to better post pic's!)

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So this is where the escalation starts...

We figure it was probably run with the clogged oil pick up for some time, so there's a high likelihood of the engine having self clearanced all the bearings beyond a spec that will maintain good hot oil pressure. :oops:
The diff will (at minimum) likely need a complete rebuild and a new ring and pinion for the front. Might as well do ball joints too!
Steering box should be replaced.
Research (on this site) indicates upgraded steering linkage & track bar should also be top priorities.
Replacing mix of worn out stock and RC control arms is probably a good idea.

So I'm a bit of a fan of as much lift as necessary, to fit as much tire as practical. Which, for the record, doesn't necessarily mean a LCG build, lol! I'm also a bit of a believer in the philosophy that, as a gross generalization, lighter (within reason) is better for performance. (Isn't that why they make aluminum V8's? :cool:)
Also, while we're tearing into things, I'd prefer to avoid duplicating work whenever possible/practical.

This leads us into where I've chased my tail around for a little bit. My parts pile becomes a distraction... I have:
Atlas 3.8 currently configured with a Chevy 27 spline input shaft (plus a 32 spline shaft in the pile)
2 D300 transfer cases. 1 regular, and one reconfigured for drivers drop. And a 4:1 gearset
'76 (Early) Bronco axles. LP 9" rear and LP Dana 44 front. Approx 58" WMS.
Fabricated 9" rear housing (from a TJ) that need new top mounts, with a 5.13 geared Detroit Locker TrueHi9 third member & 35 spline axles. (5x5.5)
'78 F250 HPD44 complete hub to hub.
4x Dirty Life Roadkill 17x9(?) beadlock wheels in 5x5.5 bolt pattern
6x Older BFG 37x12.5x17 MT's (getting a bit long in the tooth, but have been stored indoors)

I'd really appreciate the benefit of your experiences and knowledge on the following thoughts. (I know there's always tons & fodee's!) But where I live, tire coverage is required, I'm getting too old to drive that kind of heat score, and if I wanted a trailer queen, I would have bought a buggy!

Engine:
I have a good relationship with my local auto recyclers. Probably a used 4.0 is the cheapest solution, but the newest one out there is still pretty much 20 years old by now. My mechanic went through 2 or 3 to find one for his personal TJ ( same issue as mine). Next most affordable is having my local machine shop rebuild mine. I've been quoted $5k by my local (trusted) machine shop, including removal & re-installation, a bit of a cam & a slight tune. I also have a good chance at a Chevy 5.3L LC9 and 4L60E (which would bolt up nicely to the Atlas) The associated cost's with this conversion concern me. I suspect an inexpensive engine & trans could turn into a $10k swap pretty easily.

Transmission:
I'm basically neutral on the 42RLE. I get the challenges presented by the gearing, especially behind the 4.0. While the oil seemed good, I do have concerns about how it may have been treated given the mechanical condition of the rest of the Jeep. I've mostly wheeled manuals, and appreciate how they might have a slightly higher likelihood of getting you home unless they have an extreme catastrophic failure. My Bronco 2 had a doubler, so low low range was somewhere around 100:1

Transfer Case:
Nothing obvious wrong with the NV231, although II think I'd prefer something closer to 4:1 or my kind of wheeling. Haven't had time to call Advance Adapters to see how much it would cost me to get parts to convert it to 23 spline input. Not sure there's any value in a Rubicrawler for me. Suspect 7-ish to 1 is too low for practical sakes with an auto.

Axles:
If I'm sticking with stock(ish) axles, I understand 35" tires is the practical limit. If I'm keeping it practical without having to go back in to rework stuff later, I think 5:13's, lockers, and cro-mo shafts (or RCV's) is the best bet. Should probably get some BMB upgrades as the whoa pedal is far more important to me that the go. My local recycler's has a 98-ish XJ HP30 I can have for a reasonable number if I want a slightly better bolt in solution. I've been quoted north of $9k to do both front and rear axles how I'd like. (Ratcheting front & selectable rear). That doesn't include the cost of the free-spin kit if I want/need to go that route too.

While I don't really want a ratcheting rear locker, it's something I could live with to save myself some $$ for the rear. I've heard mixed reviews on the TrueHi9... could also probably get a LP 3rd to work with the TJU chassis. I have an acquaintance that's hot and bothered for the Hi9 for the front of his buggy. Even with having to fab new top mounts, I'd probably save money over building the LP44, but I'm probably adding weight? I did some rough measuring, and I think it would end up at about a 61" WMS. Iirc the guy I bought it from had a KP60 cut down to about 63" for the front.
I had similar plans for the HD HP44 that I have. Keep the knuckles, but use the F150/Bronco spindle & hub. I suspect I could use 3rd gen Dodge 1500 brakes with the massive stock F250 calipers to have overkill stopping power. I have a local machinist who can do the cut and turn for me. I haven't yet figured out if there's a combo of common stock length inner shafts that would make this work, or whether to just go custom. I was also wondering whether one could use the inner c's off a 2nd gen Dodge 1500 (which see quite similar to the TJ's) on the heavier housing to end up with something close to what Currie offers. For 5x5.5, I could possibly use the 1500 outer stuff as well...?
The Fab 9 & HP44 combo would probably lead to using the beadlocks I own and trying to run the 37's.... and you might as well throw in the V8 and Atlas while you're emptying your wallet, lmao! :rolleyes:
 
I think before I touch on suspension, I want to say that a tucked a flat belly (at least on my Jeep :LOL:) are good goals. So the body & motor lift appeal to me, in the regard that it practically facilitates that goal. Aqualu is local to me, and if required (likely) I'd go to their highline widened tube fenders for both tire clearance and street legality.

Suspension:
I'm deeply unimpressed with what is there currently. The springs might be more tolerable with WAY better shocks to control them. The rear does a somewhat disconcerting side movement as the suspension cycles. Not sure if that is TJ problems or ??? I'm of the opinion that it presently has more lift than it needs for the current tire size it's sporting.

I really like the idea of going straight to something like the Savvy Mid-Arm Kit. Being as I live north of the 49th, it becomes eye wateringly expensive to add on somewhen in the neighborhood of 50% to their asking price. (30-35% exchange rate and at least 12% tax, not including other duties or tariffs). I really like the idea of getting rid of the rear track bar. Plus I think I (mostly) understand the geometry benefit you get from putting the instant center back closer to stock for the amount of lift required to run 35's (or bigger). Not sure if I could come up with a similar locally made suspension solution.
Alternatively, something like the RockJock suspension kit, or even their Control Arms and some OME springs might be a more practical place to start. I suppose at some point if you're going to do spendy suspension, one should consider coil-over's, or ORI's as options?
If I stick with stock axles, I'm pretty sure Currectlync steering and (at minimum) one of their Front Trac Bars is on my to do list.
This is definitely another one of those places I'd appreciate the benefit of your experiences!

Anyways, I think I've type enough for now. Plus I find I have a hard time hearing when my gums are flapping, so I'll sit back and listen for a while instead!

Thanks in advance for any insights you're willing to share.
 
So this is where the escalation starts...

We figure it was probably run with the clogged oil pick up for some time, so there's a high likelihood of the engine having self clearanced all the bearings beyond a spec that will maintain good hot oil pressure. :oops:
The diff will (at minimum) likely need a complete rebuild and a new ring and pinion for the front. Might as well do ball joints too!
Steering box should be replaced.
Research (on this site) indicates upgraded steering linkage & track bar should also be top priorities.
Replacing mix of worn out stock and RC control arms is probably a good idea.

So I'm a bit of a fan of as much lift as necessary, to fit as much tire as practical. Which, for the record, doesn't necessarily mean a LCG build, lol! I'm also a bit of a believer in the philosophy that, as a gross generalization, lighter (within reason) is better for performance. (Isn't that why they make aluminum V8's? :cool:)
Also, while we're tearing into things, I'd prefer to avoid duplicating work whenever possible/practical.

This leads us into where I've chased my tail around for a little bit. My parts pile becomes a distraction... I have:
Atlas 3.8 currently configured with a Chevy 27 spline input shaft (plus a 32 spline shaft in the pile)
2 D300 transfer cases. 1 regular, and one reconfigured for drivers drop. And a 4:1 gearset
'76 (Early) Bronco axles. LP 9" rear and LP Dana 44 front. Approx 58" WMS.
Fabricated 9" rear housing (from a TJ) that need new top mounts, with a 5.13 geared Detroit Locker TrueHi9 third member & 35 spline axles. (5x5.5)
'78 F250 HPD44 complete hub to hub.
4x Dirty Life Roadkill 17x9(?) beadlock wheels in 5x5.5 bolt pattern
6x Older BFG 37x12.5x17 MT's (getting a bit long in the tooth, but have been stored indoors)

That's a pile of parts...

I'd really appreciate the benefit of your experiences and knowledge on the following thoughts. (I know there's always tons & fodee's!) But where I live, tire coverage is required, I'm getting too old to drive that kind of heat score, and if I wanted a trailer queen, I would have bought a buggy!

Engine:
I have a good relationship with my local auto recyclers. Probably a used 4.0 is the cheapest solution, but the newest one out there is still pretty much 20 years old by now. My mechanic went through 2 or 3 to find one for his personal TJ ( same issue as mine). Next most affordable is having my local machine shop rebuild mine. I've been quoted $5k by my local (trusted) machine shop, including removal & re-installation, a bit of a cam & a slight tune. I also have a good chance at a Chevy 5.3L LC9 and 4L60E (which would bolt up nicely to the Atlas) The associated cost's with this conversion concern me. I suspect an inexpensive engine & trans could turn into a $10k swap pretty easily.

I'm not a LS swap fan into our TJ's but I also know it's popular. There is a LS swap How To you should read to get a idea of what it'd take. And since you've got a lot of the parts needed already it won't cost as much.

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/how-to-ls-swap-your-tj.75472/

Or if you want to keep it in the family there is a Hemi swap...

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/gen-iii-hemi-swap-into-tj-reference-guide-swap-info.46347/

Because you have a 2004 you can't do a Magnum swap so I won't mention them.

Transmission:
I'm basically neutral on the 42RLE. I get the challenges presented by the gearing, especially behind the 4.0. While the oil seemed good, I do have concerns about how it may have been treated given the mechanical condition of the rest of the Jeep. I've mostly wheeled manuals, and appreciate how they might have a slightly higher likelihood of getting you home unless they have an extreme catastrophic failure. My Bronco 2 had a doubler, so low low range was somewhere around 100:1

There is a LOVE/HATE for the 42RLE.

Transfer Case:
Nothing obvious wrong with the NV231, although II think I'd prefer something closer to 4:1 or my kind of wheeling. Haven't had time to call Advance Adapters to see how much it would cost me to get parts to convert it to 23 spline input. Not sure there's any value in a Rubicrawler for me. Suspect 7-ish to 1 is too low for practical sakes with an auto.

Can't you just get a 23 spline input gear for your Atlas? Or would you have to send it back to AA to have it swapped?

Axles:
If I'm sticking with stock(ish) axles, I understand 35" tires is the practical limit. If I'm keeping it practical without having to go back in to rework stuff later, I think 5:13's, lockers, and cro-mo shafts (or RCV's) is the best bet. Should probably get some BMB upgrades as the whoa pedal is far more important to me that the go. My local recycler's has a 98-ish XJ HP30 I can have for a reasonable number if I want a slightly better bolt in solution. I've been quoted north of $9k to do both front and rear axles how I'd like. (Ratcheting front & selectable rear). That doesn't include the cost of the free-spin kit if I want/need to go that route too.

While I don't really want a ratcheting rear locker, it's something I could live with to save myself some $$ for the rear. I've heard mixed reviews on the TrueHi9... could also probably get a LP 3rd to work with the TJU chassis. I have an acquaintance that's hot and bothered for the Hi9 for the front of his buggy. Even with having to fab new top mounts, I'd probably save money over building the LP44, but I'm probably adding weight? I did some rough measuring, and I think it would end up at about a 61" WMS. Iirc the guy I bought it from had a KP60 cut down to about 63" for the front.
I had similar plans for the HD HP44 that I have. Keep the knuckles, but use the F150/Bronco spindle & hub. I suspect I could use 3rd gen Dodge 1500 brakes with the massive stock F250 calipers to have overkill stopping power. I have a local machinist who can do the cut and turn for me. I haven't yet figured out if there's a combo of common stock length inner shafts that would make this work, or whether to just go custom. I was also wondering whether one could use the inner c's off a 2nd gen Dodge 1500 (which see quite similar to the TJ's) on the heavier housing to end up with something close to what Currie offers. For 5x5.5, I could possibly use the 1500 outer stuff as well...?
The Fab 9 & HP44 combo would probably lead to using the beadlocks I own and trying to run the 37's.... and you might as well throw in the V8 and Atlas while you're emptying your wallet, lmao! :rolleyes:

I've been told (can't confirm) that the F250 housing is the same width as a F150 and the only difference is the knuckles & hub/rotors that adds the width. And F150 is 65" WMS and built right can easily do 37" tires.
I have a F150 HP44 that I cut & narrowed to Waggy width which is 61.5" WMS & have 1.25" wheel spacers on my TJ right now with 38x13.5x17 M/T Baja Pro XS tires on 9x17 SpyderLocks with 3.5" BS and I'm about 82" outside tire width.

20250426_111018.jpg


Those are 8" wide flares on Metal Cloak fenders

I have a Hemi in mine with a 545FRE transmission & STaK's 3 speed t-case with 3.05 & 5.44 low ranges.
HP44 & TeraLow CRD60 axles with 5.13 & ARB's.
I ran a Detroit in the rear with a Dana 35 for years and had no issues with it.
 
I think before I touch on suspension, I want to say that a tucked a flat belly (at least on my Jeep :LOL:) are good goals. So the body & motor lift appeal to me, in the regard that it practically facilitates that goal. Aqualu is local to me, and if required (likely) I'd go to their highline widened tube fenders for both tire clearance and street legality.

Suspension:
I'm deeply unimpressed with what is there currently. The springs might be more tolerable with WAY better shocks to control them. The rear does a somewhat disconcerting side movement as the suspension cycles. Not sure if that is TJ problems or ??? I'm of the opinion that it presently has more lift than it needs for the current tire size it's sporting.

I really like the idea of going straight to something like the Savvy Mid-Arm Kit. Being as I live north of the 49th, it becomes eye wateringly expensive to add on somewhen in the neighborhood of 50% to their asking price. (30-35% exchange rate and at least 12% tax, not including other duties or tariffs). I really like the idea of getting rid of the rear track bar. Plus I think I (mostly) understand the geometry benefit you get from putting the instant center back closer to stock for the amount of lift required to run 35's (or bigger). Not sure if I could come up with a similar locally made suspension solution.
Alternatively, something like the RockJock suspension kit, or even their Control Arms and some OME springs might be a more practical place to start. I suppose at some point if you're going to do spendy suspension, one should consider coil-over's, or ORI's as options?
If I stick with stock axles, I'm pretty sure Currectlync steering and (at minimum) one of their Front Trac Bars is on my to do list.
This is definitely another one of those places I'd appreciate the benefit of your experiences!

Anyways, I think I've type enough for now. Plus I find I have a hard time hearing when my gums are flapping, so I'll sit back and listen for a while instead!

Thanks in advance for any insights you're willing to share.

You can always become friends with a US friend and have stuff shipped to them and then meet near the border... Or are you taxed if you pickup something and try to bring it back into Canada? If a US citizen comes to visit and they say I'm bringing some used car parts then what?
 
You can always become friends with a US friend and have stuff shipped to them and then meet near the border... Or are you taxed if you pickup something and try to bring it back into Canada? If a US citizen comes to visit and they say I'm bringing some used car parts then what?

The last time I crossed the border, you could do it with just your drivers license for ID. And that was quite a while ago. (We used to surf at Westport, Seaside & around Cannon Beach.) I'll admit I have been remiss in getting my passport since those days. Otherwise I'd probably get a shipping box in Oroville. I'm neither dumb or brave enough to not declare whatever I'd be bringing back, so yeah, I'd probably still end up paying taxes. And there's no escaping the exchange rate. Not sure about the last one. High likelihood to result in a sticky situation....
 
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That's a pile of parts...

I've been collecting and scheming for almost 12 years on the CJ2A build. I still have it, and plan more of a resto-mod type build for it someday.

I'm not a LS swap fan into our TJ's but I also know it's popular. There is a LS swap How To you should read to get a idea of what it'd take. And since you've got a lot of the parts needed already it won't cost as much.

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/how-to-ls-swap-your-tj.75472/

Or if you want to keep it in the family there is a Hemi swap...

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/gen-iii-hemi-swap-into-tj-reference-guide-swap-info.46347/

Because you have a 2004 you can't do a Magnum swap so I won't mention them.

While I like Mopar's, I'm no brand loyalist. The LS swap would likely be my go to V8 choice. I have read through the ls thread. That's what made me realize it would likely end up costing $10k before it was done.
Another interesting GM alternative would be the Atlas family of motors. Specifically the Vortec 4200 from the Trailblazer, etc.

There is a LOVE/HATE for the 42RLE.

I've done enough reading around here to pick up on that. I don't think it's all that much different from a 4L60E, except I
think the GM trans might have a deeper 1st gear.

Can't you just get a 23 spline input gear for your Atlas? Or would you have to send it back to AA to have it swapped?

The guy I bought it from swapped from the 32 spline to the 27 spline when he changed tranny's in his buggy. It was gone through before I bought it. I'll need to make time to contact AA to find out if it's economically feasible to DIY it.

I've been told (can't confirm) that the F250 housing is the same width as a F150 and the only difference is the knuckles & hub/rotors that adds the width. And F150 is 65" WMS and built right can easily do 37" tires.
I have a F150 HP44 that I cut & narrowed to Waggy width which is 61.5" WMS & have 1.25" wheel spacers on my TJ right now with 38x13.5x17 M/T Baja Pro XS tires on 9x17 SpyderLocks with 3.5" BS and I'm about 82" outside tire width.

Iirc: the way I think I heard it was that the spindles & hubs accounted for the width. In BC, they want you to cover the tire, so I need to be mindful of that. While it might not result in being pulled over right away, if they do stop you and send you for a Vehicle Inspection, they'd need to be covered in order to pass. I'd just as soon not FAFO!

View attachment 634586

Those are 8" wide flares on Metal Cloak fenders

I have a Hemi in mine with a 545FRE transmission & STaK's 3 speed t-case with 3.05 & 5.44 low ranges.
HP44 & TeraLow CRD60 axles with 5.13 & ARB's.
I ran a Detroit in the rear with a Dana 35 for years and had no issues with it.

I still need to finish going through your thread. (It's on my reading list.) I ran a rear Detroit for years as well, and really only found it bothersome on pavement in the snow. My preference would be selectable rear if at all possible.
The STaK sounds like it has a useful set of ratio's. With an auto, I think I could be happy with just a 4-ish to 1 box.
If I did the HPD44, I'd be planning on capping the tire size at (the odd size out) of 37's (A little big for 1/2 tons and a little small for 1 tons.)

Whatever stuff I've collected that won't get used is going to get kicked down the road. It's one of the bigger reason's I can barely get into my shop currently. :ROFLMAO: Plus the funds could be reinvested into the TJ.

I suppose JK Rubicon axles could be another option, and probably not too much more spendy than anything else. I haven't really researched what needs to be moved to put them in a TJ, but I'm betting all the mounts are wider...
 
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I'm kind of digging these in the 6" flavor:
https://www.hardbody4x4.com/5213-1997-2006-tj-lj-high-hood-tube-front-fenders.html

I've been led to believe they are 6" wider as measured from the stock steel fender. If a TJ is 60" wide to the outside of the tub/steel fender, then this should give me up to 72" of coverage.
If my math is right, a 12" tire on a 3.75" BS wheel should be covered if it's on an axle no wider than 64.5" WMS?
Although a wider WMS might then allow more backspacing before being problematic to suspension or body bits?

On a similar topic, but slightly unrelated, what is the strength comparison between the TJ inner C's an the old school stuff?
I'd dare say the TJ Dana 30 C's themself look potentially stronger, even if the housing and center section aren't
 
I've been collecting and scheming for almost 12 years on the CJ2A build. I still have it, and plan more of a resto-mod type build for it someday.

If I was to build another Jeep I'd LOVE it to be a Flatty. But it'd be on a stretched frame and body so I could fit into it easier...

While I like Mopar's, I'm no brand loyalist. The LS swap would likely be my go to V8 choice. I have read through the ls thread. That's what made me realize it would likely end up costing $10k before it was done.
Another interesting GM alternative would be the Atlas family of motors. Specifically the Vortec 4200 from the Trailblazer, etc.

It's more of a too many LS swaps thing for me... And I grew up with SBC Jeeps so yes I liked them back then. Owned 2 also. When I first did my V-8 swap it was a Magnum & LS & Hemi's were new too expensive.

I've done enough reading around here to pick up on that. I don't think it's all that much different from a 4L60E, except I
think the GM trans might have a deeper 1st gear.

I don't know enough about them to be able to comment on that. But a V-8 hides the taller O/D too.

The guy I bought it from swapped from the 32 spline to the 27 spline when he changed tranny's in his buggy. It was gone through before I bought it. I'll need to make time to contact AA to find out if it's economically feasible to DIY it.

Again not having an Atlas I can't say but it seems like from what I've read it's fairly easy.

Iirc: the way I think I heard it was that the spindles & hubs accounted for the width. In BC, they want you to cover the tire, so I need to be mindful of that. While it might not result in being pulled over right away, if they do stop you and send you for a Vehicle Inspection, they'd need to be covered in order to pass. I'd just as soon not FAFO!

WA used to be real sticklers about tire coverage and it was why I went with the 8" wide flares. While the MC isn't a liked brand I wanted flares I could take off for running the tighter trails with. But I was out of the wheeling world for a while and it seems like they aren't as strict now since there are a lot of rigs running around with tires sticking out now.

I still need to finish going through your thread. (It's on my reading list.) I ran a rear Detroit for years as well, and really only found it bothersome on pavement in the snow. My preference would be selectable rear if at all possible.
The STaK sounds like it has a useful set of ratio's. With an auto, I think I could be happy with just a 4-ish to 1 box.
If I did the HPD44, I'd be planning on capping the tire size at (the odd size out) of 37's (A little big for 1/2 tons and a little small for 1 tons.)

I never had many issues with mine in the snow but I'd had a Suzuki Samurai with LocRite lockers so was used to how auto lockers handled on a SWB rig. There used to be a few guys on Pirate who said they ran up to 40" tires on a HP44 and were able to make it live. I've only broken one axle so far running 38" tires and I've got RCV's now.
Yes the STaK's has good ratios for an auto and seems to work well. It's too bad they went out of business but they couldn't fix the issues they had. But yes staying around a 37" tire should make the HP44 happy.

Whatever stuff I've collected that won't get used is going to get kicked down the road. It's one of the bigger reason's I can barely get into my shop currently. :ROFLMAO: Plus the funds could be reinvested into the TJ.

I suppose JK Rubicon axles could be another option, and probably not too much more spendy than anything else. I haven't really researched what needs to be moved to put them in a TJ, but I'm betting all the mounts are wider...

JK axles are also 65" WMS wide so while a good option it's the tire coverage that could be the challenge.

I'm kind of digging these in the 6" flavor:
https://www.hardbody4x4.com/5213-1997-2006-tj-lj-high-hood-tube-front-fenders.html

I've been led to believe they are 6" wider as measured from the stock steel fender. If a TJ is 60" wide to the outside of the tub/steel fender, then this should give me up to 72" of coverage.
If my math is right, a 12" tire on a 3.75" BS wheel should be covered if it's on an axle no wider than 64.5" WMS?
Although a wider WMS might then allow more backspacing before being problematic to suspension or body bits?

On a similar topic, but slightly unrelated, what is the strength comparison between the TJ inner C's an the old school stuff?
I'd dare say the TJ Dana 30 C's themself look potentially stronger, even if the housing and center section aren't

The older Dana 30 "C" was stronger than the TJ Dana 30. The older design is like the HP44 where the ball joint presses into the knuckle instead of the "C" so even if stretched out it's a lot easier to replace a knuckle than a "C".

On my old setup I was running 4.5" BS wheels & 38x12.50 tires and was 75" outside tire width. These were 3" Poison Spyder fenders.

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The last time I crossed the border, you could do it with just your drivers license for ID. And that was quite a while ago. (We used to surf at Westport, Seaside & around Cannon Beach.) I'll admit I have been remiss in getting my passport since those days. Otherwise I'd probably get a shipping box in Oroville. I'm neither dumb or brave enough to not declare whatever I'd be bringing back, so yeah, I'd probably still end up paying taxes. And there's no escaping the exchange rate. Not sure about the last one. High likelihood to result in a sticky situation....

Same here. I haven't been up north in years. I have the drivers license that isn't supposed to allow me to go across with just it. So if I came to visit I wonder what they'd say about a pile of parts in my rig?
 
Same here. I haven't been up north in years. I have the drivers license that isn't supposed to allow me to go across with just it. So if I came to visit I wonder what they'd say about a pile of parts in my rig?

I suspect, if they were aware of the parts, it would lead to questions requiring a really plausible story. Likely the best case scenario would result in you getting turned around and sent back across...
I recall someone trying to deliver something free, from a third party, to a person up here catching hell from our border people because technically he's become an "importer" and of course didn't have all the proper paperwork.

While we live on opposite sides of the "worlds longest undefended(ish) border", I would never take chances with crossing either way, and would never advise anyone else do so either. If, for no other reason, than to avoid having to deal with potential higher scrutiny next time I wanted to cross (and/or being asked to not come back).
Although my only challenges crossing were actually on the U.S. side while trying to come back home: We were pulled into the station on the U.S. side and had a 10-15 minute chat with the officials, while a German Shepherd had a sniff around/inside my truck. Me thinks they were looking for "importers".

The current political climate is much different than it was then...
 
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If I was to build another Jeep I'd LOVE it to be a Flatty. But it'd be on a stretched frame and body so I could fit into it easier...

That was the idea... I had a lot of inspiration from the guys over on Pirate back in the day.

WA used to be real sticklers about tire coverage and it was why I went with the 8" wide flares. While the MC isn't a liked brand I wanted flares I could take off for running the tighter trails with. But I was out of the wheeling world for a while and it seems like they aren't as strict now since there are a lot of rigs running around with tires sticking out now.

Same here, but the laws haven't changed, so it's probably a matter of selective enforcement/better things to do. While I don't drive any kind of big rig, I'm technically a commercial driver, so I need to mindful of my driving record. Plus I have little to no interest in giving them reasons to bother me if they find themselves bored one day. (Or have a periodic traffic enforcement blitz.)

I never had many issues with mine in the snow but I'd had a Suzuki Samurai with LocRite lockers so was used to how auto lockers handled on a SWB rig.

My Bronco 2 was a manual with Detroit rear & True Trac front. Problem was the not-well-balanced front driveshaft meant you didn't want to be in 4 High at road speeds unless absolutely necessary. It resulted in a lot of shifting between the manual trans and transfer case, as you navigated through town while trying not to loop it out!
 
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Life seems to always be busy nowadays. I think I've figured out pic posting a bit better. I added a few "before" shots to my first post. I might need help figuring out how to post them in the relevant spot in the text.
Had some time today to work one inspiration & maybe get some more planning done.
I've managed to scoop up a couple of cheap adapters for some test fitting. They're 1.5" thick, and convert to 5 x 5.5 bolt pattern. My TJU already has a 4-ish inch lift so I though I'd see what the 37 x 12.5's I have would look like. They're mounted on 17 x 9.5 wheels with about 4.5" backspacing.

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With the added 1.5" width (per side), there seems to be a "reasonable" amount of clearance to most of the rest of the parts. But of course this is unloaded, ans not flexed at all...

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I can see the possibilities of running this much lift, plus the body lift to help with both the flatter belly, and belly clearance. A proper set of highline fenders would go a long ways towards providing sufficient body clearance, and widened fenders could provide tire coverage (to some extent). I'm nowhere near insane enough to wheel 37's on a Dana 30 where I live. Without putting it into a shop and removing the springs/shocks, I think it's pretty hard to gauge how much more stuff will get in the way when really working this type of set-up.
Honestly it kind of makes a good argument for trying to maximize operation on 35's....
 
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I was fooling around with tire placement, before I actually got the jack out.

I kind of like the look of the front (roughly) online with the stock axle placement, and the rear offset back 4-6"...

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Novak Conversions Jeep Wrangler TJ engine mounts