Basket's Build

[lBasket]

That makes sense. Can you do the regear yourself?

I think I'm going to, I can honestly bring my axles into my house and be as patient as I want.

If so, even if you do have to regear later, the parts cost would be significantly less and would take less time than doing a trans swap or building a new Jeep in the first place.

I suppose if I do 5.13s they'd be good with the aw4 and the ax15. You need way lower gears to still be on the highway with the 32rh without OD though.

That is a good point. And it'd probably make it a lot more attractive when selling it if it had lockers and was geared appropriately, so it wouldn't be a waste if I went that route

 

[mrblaine]

The only advantage a manual has in that situation is starting out in a specific gear. A manual valve body would decrease that advantage dramatically but I don't know it they're even available for the TJ autos or not.

There are levels of silly, and then there are levels of SILLY and not much approaches more of that than a manual valve body. The only folks who should EVER make that recommendation are them that have one in a daily driver.

 

[mrblaine]

The rubicrawler can go in front of a 231, 241, or an atlas, but the transmission has to be the 42RLE if I'm not mistaken, because it replaces the 42RLE tail shaft housing.

You are not mistaken.

 

[mrblaine]

I suppose if I do 5.13s they'd be good with the aw4 and the ax15.

For 35's? No, and anyone that tells you that is a good ratio for the AW-4 has very low expectations or has never driven one set up like that.

You need way lower gears to still be on the highway with the 32rh without OD though.

Not sure that means what you think it does. The 32 and 35's gets 4.56.

 

[lBasket]

For 35's? No, and anyone that tells you that is a good ratio for the AW-4 has very low expectations or has never driven one set up like that.

I was just quickly playing with the grimmjeep calc to come up with that number, honestly. Trying to replicate it, I am realizing I was doing it for my current tires 33s (32"ish actual diameter) instead. I didn't think the RPMs looked so bad, this is 33s (32" diameter) and 35s (34" diameter):

Didn't think the RPMs were that bad looking but yeah this is theoretical and I don't really know what else to look at past this calc.

Ignoring for a moment that you hate the AW4 for other reasons, what about the ratio here is going to be so bad? That's aw4/np231/5.13 gears on both sides.

Not sure that means what you think it does. The 32 and 35's gets 4.56.

Yeah, I think my usage of "lower" there was pretty ambigious at best. Essentially, it was recommended to run 4.10s with the 32. I think we were still in the context of 35s at the time.

Here's a chart just for the whole picture, 34" diameter, 32rh, np231, and 4.10s on the left 4.56 on the right.

I see the 2852 RPM @ 75 for the 5.13 aw4 on 34" diameter tires is a little low. Is that the part that would be miserable? What is your desired RPM for highway speeds with the 4.0?

 

[Mike_H]

I was just quickly playing with the grimmjeep calc to come up with that number, honestly. Trying to replicate it, I am realizing I was doing it for my current tires 33s (32"ish actual diameter) instead. I didn't think the RPMs looked so bad, this is 33s (32" diameter) and 35s (34" diameter):

View attachment 425462

Didn't think the RPMs were that bad looking but yeah this is theoretical and I don't really know what else to look at past this calc.

Ignoring for a moment that you hate the AW4 for other reasons, what about the ratio here is going to be so bad? That's aw4/np231/5.13 gears on both sides.

Yeah, I think my usage of "lower" there was pretty ambigious at best. Essentially, it was recommended to run 4.10s with the 32. I think we were still in the context of 35s at the time.

Here's a chart just for the whole picture, 34" diameter, 32rh, np231, and 4.10s on the left 4.56 on the right.

View attachment 425463

I see the 2852 RPM @ 75 for the 5.13 aw4 on 34" diameter tires is a little low. Is that the part that would be miserable? What is your desired RPM for highway speeds with the 4.0?

Everybody's definition of miserable is a little different. I have 4.88's and the 42RLE...it doesn't suck. I don't think its miserable...although everyone thinks I should. Is it ideal? No, its not. Its it bad enough that I need to change it RIGHT NOW? Also no. I live in a relatively flat state though at a low elevation (700'ish feet) ...I can see where a guy living at 6000 feet and lots of elevation changes would want more gear.

 

[tworley]

Yeah I have been referencing his, there were like 2-3 slightly different ones on his site

Does he have a new site up? I remember the old went down years ago

 

[lBasket]

Everybody's definition of miserable is a little different. I have 4.88's and the 42RLE...it doesn't suck. I don't think its miserable...although everyone thinks I should. Is it ideal? No, its not. Its it bad enough that I need to change it RIGHT NOW? Also no. I live in a relatively flat state though at a low elevation (700'ish feet) ...I can see where a guy living at 6000 feet and lots of elevation changes would want more gear.

8600' now

I think I'm getting to a point honestly where I can look at this calculator all I want, but I won't get much more of an understanding of how it feels without more perspective from driving other setups...

 

[lBasket]

Does he have a new site up? I remember the old went down years ago

No, but you can still find the articles using the wayback machine

 

[mrblaine]

I was just quickly playing with the grimmjeep calc to come up with that number, honestly. Trying to replicate it, I am realizing I was doing it for my current tires 33s (32"ish actual diameter) instead. I didn't think the RPMs looked so bad, this is 33s (32" diameter) and 35s (34" diameter):

View attachment 425462

Didn't think the RPMs were that bad looking but yeah this is theoretical and I don't really know what else to look at past this calc.

Ignoring for a moment that you hate the AW4 for other reasons, what about the ratio here is going to be so bad? That's aw4/np231/5.13 gears on both sides.

Yeah, I think my usage of "lower" there was pretty ambigious at best. Essentially, it was recommended to run 4.10s with the 32. I think we were still in the context of 35s at the time.

Here's a chart just for the whole picture, 34" diameter, 32rh, np231, and 4.10s on the left 4.56 on the right.

View attachment 425463

I see the 2852 RPM @ 75 for the 5.13 aw4 on 34" diameter tires is a little low. Is that the part that would be miserable? What is your desired RPM for highway speeds with the 4.0?

I don't hate the AW-4. I am objective. I have a lot of experience with them. I have a rig with one in it. I have swapped in many.

What your numbers don't take into account is the horrible inefficiency that shows up when you swap one into a TJ.

Most everyone agrees that there is very little that is stellar about the 42RLE except that it mostly works. If you want to actually learn something, find someone with a TJ on 35's with the AW-4 swap done well, then find a TJ Unlimited on 35's with the 42 and both built very similarly. Take a long enough trip to spend the day following the 42 around. If you don't get out of the TJ at least 10 times during that little exercise to look behind it to see where the anchor is you feel like you're dragging because you just can't keep up with the other rig, then YOU have very low expectations.

Here is the absolute best part. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that you won't change your mind, no one ever does. I have stood in front of rig owners and used every smidgeon of persuasion I possess to try and convince them that the AW-4 will NOT do what they think it will regardless of what everyone says. I've done too many of them, I've put them in everything from a 98 TJ up through a 2005 TJ Unlimited and I own one. Not a single time have they listened. They never listen until they call me after they have driven it for awhile and ask me why I let them do it. Then I get to go dig out the email that I sent them that tells them exactly every single thing that they were going to discover that is bad about the AW-4 and have them hold on while I send it again. That ends the conversation.

Before the swap, they are doing and did do the same thing you are doing. You listen to folks who have never done one, you listen to folks who have done ONE and have very low standards and heaps of confirmation bias. Almost no one has the balls to say I fucked up when they put that much time, effort, and expense into that big of a mod, what in the every living fuck do you expect them to say? I spent 5 grand and 50 hours on this bitch and it sucks? Yeah, that's not gonna happen. They whipped out charts, handed me printed out forum posts and part lists and ignored every single thing I had to say. Fine, here's your piece of shit AW-4 swap done so it looks like it came from the factory that way, don't call me. Now I don't get the calls because I won't do one. Of the 10 I have done, only 2 are still with the owners, mine because we don't drive it enough to matter (although it would get driven more if that trans wasn't in it) and the green stretched TJ. The rest either got sold off because the owner hated it, or they did an LS swap. If I had the time, that number would be one.

 

[jjvw]

Does he have a new site up? I remember the old went down years ago

Stu sold his site to a large content conglomerate about 5 years ago. Last I checked, the text still existed buried within some other website, but the images and organization was gone.

 

[mrblaine]

Everybody's definition of miserable is a little different. I have 4.88's and the 42RLE...it doesn't suck. I don't think its miserable...although everyone thinks I should. Is it ideal? No, its not. Its it bad enough that I need to change it RIGHT NOW? Also no. I live in a relatively flat state though at a low elevation (700'ish feet) ...I can see where a guy living at 6000 feet and lots of elevation changes would want more gear.

You put 5.38's in it and we'll revisit what you really think doesn't suck means. I promise that it will be very unlikely that you don't say that you can't believe you actually said that at one point in time.

Don't forget, I've driven a TJ Unlimited with 4.10's and the NSG370. The owner told me he thought it was just fine and no reason to regear. It was just terrible.

 

[JMT]

Back to crawl ratio for a moment.

If you stayed with the AX-15 and regeared to 5.13 and added a 4:1 TCase you’d change your crawl ratio from 36:1 to 78:1. That’s a dramatic change on the trail.

 

[jjvw]

Back to crawl ratio for a moment.

If you stayed with the AX-15 and regeared to 5.13 and added a 4:1 TCase you’d change your crawl ratio from 36:1 to 78:1. That’s a dramatic change on the trail.

And back to the transmission fantasies for a moment, if he gets an automatic in there he will quit fixating on crawl ratios.

 

[JMT]

And it'd probably make it a lot more attractive when selling it if it had lockers and was geared appropriately, so it wouldn't be a waste if I went that route

You probably wouldn’t get .20 on the dollar back from your investment in gears and lockers, so keep that in mind if you wanted to sell.

 

[Shank]

You put 5.38's in it and we'll revisit what you really think doesn't suck means. I promise that it will be very unlikely that you don't say that you can't believe you actually said that at one point in time.

Don't forget, I've driven a TJ Unlimited with 4.10's and the NSG370. The owner told me he thought it was just fine and no reason to regear. It was just terrible.

NSG370, 3.73's, and 33's here, it's fine.... Just kidding on the fine part.

 

[JMT]

And back to the transmission fantasies for a moment, if he gets an automatic in there he will quit fixating on crawl ratios.

In his situation I’d sell and get an auto.

 

[Mike_H]

You put 5.38's in it and we'll revisit what you really think doesn't suck means. I promise that it will be very unlikely that you don't say that you can't believe you actually said that at one point in time.

Don't forget, I've driven a TJ Unlimited with 4.10's and the NSG370. The owner told me he thought it was just fine and no reason to regear. It was just terrible.

That's probably true. The gear ratio doesn't keep me from driving the jeep though. I don't look at it and think, "man, do I really want to drive this thing? " I just hop in and I enjoy it. For the record, I drove it with 4.10's and 35's with the NV3550 too...that did suck...and the difference to 4.88's was pretty stellar. I'd imagine I'd have the same experience going to 5.38's. I do plan on regearing...just not right now. The next big project on the jeep for me will be outboarding and getting some decent GD shocks.

The only point I was trying to make is that if @lBasket wanted to regear first (which would probably make this whole thread seem silly), needing to regear for a later transmission choice might not need to happen at the same time.

 

[Alex01]

Atlas is shorter than the 241/231? Sounds nice, my jeep is too old though really

The rear output is a few inches shorter and the front output is a few inches longer.

The atlas, 5:1 in my case, is nice with my manual because even on the steepest of obstacles with a rock in front of the tires I can hold the brakes as hard as possible and let out the clutch in 1st without needing any throttle input. The jeep will push through the brakes and is seemingly impossible to stall in 1st low.

 

[mrblaine]

a rock in front of the tires I can hold the brakes as hard as possible and let out the clutch in 1st without needing any throttle input. The jeep will push through the brakes and is seemingly impossible to stall in 1st low.

I can fix that little problem for you.