Novak Conversions Jeep Wrangler TJ engine mounts

A unique AC / idle issue?

DE04TJ

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Apr 29, 2023
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VA
After hours reading the forms and troubleshooting it is time for a post...

I have a 2004 4.0 Auto 111k miles - The start of the problem is there is a slight rough idle, almost like a faint misfire, cold or warm. The jeep starts cold at 1000 rpms and drops down to 650-680 when warm, runs and drives fine. Here's the kicker, when you click on the ac, in park or neutral, it gets worse and there's a bad resonance, id say it's worse warm but it is still bad cold. When you shift into gear with the ac on at idle the vibes get worse and the resonance rattles your brain. This is the problem im trying to solve. Ac works fine, pressures have been checked. No codes. Vibes and resonance go away once you start driving. RPM only increases about 20 with the AC on.

I have an Autel MK808 Pro but I am still learning how to use it and not really sure what to be looking for.

A quick background on the jeep, a year ago I completed a full frame swap, the only non-stock items (its a daily) are reman bosch injectors (the originals were cracked), an MRD coil pack, a tmr custom trans mount, and MORE engine mounts. I dont feel the poly mounts are the cause of the vibes, its only under the conditions i said above. It has been running great until this problem recently presented itself. Another note is the jeep sat for almost 2 years during the rebuild, before starting it up for the first time I removed the cam synchronizer to manually prime the oil pump. I followed the FSM to reinstall at TDC, thought I should mention that because I have read a few posts about them and the magnets going bad in the CPS if they sit.

So far ive tried cleaning the IAC with Jerrys method, then ended up taking the throttle body off and removing the IAC housing to completely clean the orifice and throttle body. Bought an aftermarket IAC to test, no change.

I had autolite plugs but swapped them to ZFR5N, checked the gap. No change. I have an MRD coil pack and checked the ohms, seems to be good. I did a smoke test through the manifold (brake booster hose) and fixed 3 vacuum leaks on the evap lines. I still have a small leak at the throttle body shaft and im going to try the oring work around from Rusty 411. My vacuum gauge is reading 16 inhg at the manifold with engine running. I read a post from @Chris about a broken clock spring interfering with the TPS, i thought this may be an issue from the frame swap, disconnected the clock spring, no change. Checked grounds, they seem to be good. Im getting ready to test the fuel pressure. A friend of mine mentioned it could be heat soak at the injectors, I have the heat shield in place but never wrapped the rail or injectors. Another note, i tried running an active test to set the RPM to 1500, 2000, etc on my Autel and the jeep wouldnt do it? Not sure if that one was user error.

Ive only seen 2 posts on here with this issue:

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/rough-idle.77189/ this one went nowhere

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/really-low-idle-and-vibration.31685/#post-1620247 and this one from @MikeE024 which led to a new PCM from @Wranglerfix
 
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After hours reading the forms and troubleshooting it is time for a post...

I have a 2004 4.0 Auto 111k miles - The start of the problem is there is a slight rough idle, almost like a faint misfire, cold or warm. The jeep starts cold at 1000 rpms and drops down to 650-680 when warm, runs and drives fine. Here's the kicker, when you click on the ac, in park or neutral, it gets worse and there's a bad resonance, id say it's worse warm but it is still bad cold. When you shift into gear with the ac on at idle the vibes get worse and the resonance rattles your brain. This is the problem im trying to solve. Ac works fine, pressures have been checked. No codes. Vibes and resonance go away once you start driving. RPM only increases about 20 with the AC on.

I have an Autel MK808 Pro but I am still learning how to use it and not really sure what to be looking for.

A quick background on the jeep, a year ago I completed a full frame swap, the only non-stock items (its a daily) are reman bosch injectors (the originals were cracked), an MRD coil pack, a tmr custom trans mount, and MORE engine mounts. I dont feel the poly mounts are the cause of the vibes, its only under the conditions i said above. It has been running great until this problem recently presented itself. Another note is the jeep sat for almost 2 years during the rebuild, before starting it up for the first time I removed the cam synchronizer to manually prime the oil pump. I followed the FSM to reinstall at TDC, thought I should mention that because I have read a few posts about them and the magnets going bad in the CPS if they sit.

So far ive tried cleaning the IAC with Jerrys method, then ended up taking the throttle body off and removing the IAC housing to completely clean the orifice and throttle body. Bought an aftermarket IAC to test, no change.

I had autolite plugs but swapped them to ZFR5N, checked the gap. No change. I have an MRD coil pack and checked the ohms, seems to be good. I did a smoke test through the manifold (brake booster hose) and fixed 3 vacuum leaks on the evap lines. I still have a small leak at the throttle body shaft and im going to try the oring work around from Rusty 411. My vacuum gauge is reading 16 inhg at the manifold with engine running. I read a post from @Chris about a broken clock spring interfering with the TPS, i thought this may be an issue from the frame swap, disconnected the clock spring, no change. Checked grounds, they seem to be good. Im getting ready to test the fuel pressure. A friend of mine mentioned it could be heat soak at the injectors, I have the heat shield in place but never wrapped the rail or injectors. Another note, i tried running an active test to set the RPM to 1500, 2000, etc on my Autel and the jeep wouldnt do it? Not sure if that one was user error.

Ive only seen 2 posts on here with this issue:

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/rough-idle.77189/ this one went nowhere

https://wranglertjforum.com/threads/really-low-idle-and-vibration.31685/#post-1620247 and this one from @MikeE024 which led to a new PCM from @Wranglerfix

Nice work cleaning up the vacuum leaks.

Btw…I wrapped the fuel line, rail, and injectors more extensively than I’ve seen anyone else do, cleaned the IAC & TB, changed the plugs, and installed a hood louver, but nothing fixed it.

Maybe try talking with Mark @Wranglerfix to see if he can help.
 
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Nice work cleaning up the vacuum leaks.

Btw…I wrapped the fuel line, rail, and injectors more extensively than I’ve seen anyone else do, cleaned the IAC & TB, changed the plugs, and installed a hood louver, but nothing fixed it.

Maybe try talking with Mark @Wranglerfix to see if he can help.

I ordered the rail and injector wrap kit. After an hour of idling while troubleshooting tonight the problem got significantly, decided to check the ohms on the o2 sensors and bank 1 sensor 1 is at 4 ohms. Might be part of the problem.
 
I ordered the rail and injector wrap kit. After an hour of idling while troubleshooting tonight the problem got significantly, decided to check the ohms on the o2 sensors and bank 1 sensor 1 is at 4 ohms. Might be part of the problem.

FWIW, I installed the Mopar corrugated split-wrap, 500* wrap, and 1800* wrap over injector #3.

I don’t know if it’s necessary, but these were the measures I took when trying to fix the misfire issue. I thought it helped some at first, but ultimately it didn’t solve the problem.

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I can’t help with a miss but i do know from experience that resonance in the cab at low rpm load is a hallmark of poly mounts.
 
I can’t help with a miss but i do know from experience that resonance in the cab at low rpm load is a hallmark of poly mounts.
Yep, I knew the risks beforehand and thought that was my issue at first but it got progressively worse so there is definitely something else going on. As I said, its been great for almost a year since the rebuild with the poly bushings. If I could source rubber for the TMR cross member id change them, I saw some guys use JK controls arms for there cross members.
 
So I pulled the throttle body shaft, mine wasn't grooved, just bad seals. Installed 4 o rings (Viton 1/2 OD x 3/8ID x 1/16 DIA, 1 on each side of the bearing for anyone else doing this fix) and smoke tested on the bench to confirm. No more leaks and raised the vacuum from 15 inhg to 17 inhg at the MAP. Picture proof that the IAC orifice is clean. I tested the fuel pressure before fixing the leak gauge was bouncing too fast to read between 42 and 50 psi. After the fixing the TB the fuel pressure gauge is hovering around 49 psi. When I shut the jeep off it will hold 44 psi but slowly creeps down after 10-15 mins, Jeep starts just fine though??
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Are O2 sensors supposed to flat line when you put it in gear?? Thinking this might be a fuel issue...
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Novak Conversions Jeep Wrangler TJ engine mounts