99 32RH automatic transmission shift points?

[any4xx]

My new-to-me ‘99 with a 4.0 and automatic transmission had its transmission “overhauled” about 7 months before I bought it. It felt good, but the shift points were much lower than I’d expected and it often wouldn’t downshift on WOT. I played with the TV cable adjustment and now it downshifts properly and feels much better.

The odd (?) thing to me still is that my tachometer indicates a red line around 5,200-ish RPM but when fully warm at WOT from a stop both shifts occur around 4,200 RPM. Is this normal? I’d THINK that a full acceleration would have the transmission shifting closer to the engine red line. But this is my first TJ so I’m not sure what is “normal.” I’m sure that I can make a few more minor adjustments to the TV cable to move the shift points around a bit more, but if it’s already shifting correctly I’m not wanting to do so.

Thoughts?

 

[macleanflood]

@hear our resident automagical transmission expert can answer this one.

-Mac

 

[hear]

I'd have to test drive mine to know exactly where that shift point is at WOT, but that sounds close to right. Remember, the same instrument cluster was used for manuals and automatics, and the redline is wherever the physics determine redline is (theoretically, anyway). Redline is not necessarily a goal for the shift points, and generally speaking off the assembly line vehicles are de-tuned to hit MPG targets, etc.

If you like the "normal throttle" shift points and it kicks down how you expect, then I wouldn't spend much energy messing with it.

 

[any4xx]

I'd have to test drive mine to know exactly where that shift point is at WOT, but that sounds close to right. Remember, the same instrument cluster was used for manuals and automatics, and the redline is wherever the physics determine redline is (theoretically, anyway). Redline is not necessarily a goal for the shift points, and generally speaking off the assembly line vehicles are de-tuned to hit MPG targets, etc.

If you like the "normal throttle" shift points and it kicks down how you expect, then I wouldn't spend much energy messing with it.

Agreed. I feel like I have it “right.” But since this thing has been through several unknown-to-me owners I really want to get everything back to 100% factory settings as a baseline. Heck: I spent a day last week taking out the spring lift to get it back down to factory ride height. I may raise it back up, but I’m that nutty guy who wants to know that any alterations to factory settings are better, instead of just different, before settling on modifications.

 

[TheBoogieman]

I’m that nutty guy who wants to know that any alterations to factory settings are better, instead of just different, before settling on modifications.

Ditch the pocket flares and heavy Chinese bumper next. Neither of those is better.

 

[any4xx]

Ditch the pocket flares and heavy Chinese bumper next. Neither of those is better.

Meh… both were also on it when I bought it. I feel the flares are cosmetic and personal choice. Some previous owner added them and I’m neutral about how I feel about them. The front bumper holds the cheap winch. Another thing I don’t care so much about. Certainly not enough to change either the bumper or the winch. I don’t feel that either change the handling or driving dynamics so they’ll probably get to live there for the foreseeable future. Transmission shift points, steering component alignment, and things such as that are important enough to me to warrant my attention.

 

[hardtailpan]

If you are worried about the transmission, and don't know the last time the fluid was changed, I'd change the fluid and filter, and while I was in there I'd adjust the bands. One is accessible without dropping the pan, but the other isn't.

 

[any4xx]

If you are worried about the transmission, and don't know the last time the fluid was changed, I'd change the fluid and filter, and while I was in there I'd adjust the bands. One is accessible without dropping the pan, but the other isn't.

I’ve got a receipt from the somewhat local shop that “overhauled” the transmission back in December that also lists a few hard parts that were replaced. Even though they didn’t get the TV cable ( guessing that’s what it’s called in the Jeep world? My experience is with GM transmissions.) adjustment right I’m confident that they at least used new fluid and filter. Nothing slips or leaks and shifts are smooth so I’m not inclined to start monkeying with opening things up. But if I get REALLY bored who knows what I might do.

 

[hardtailpan]

I’ve got a receipt from the somewhat local shop that “overhauled” the transmission back in December that also lists a few hard parts that were replaced. Even though they didn’t get the TV cable ( guessing that’s what it’s called in the Jeep world? My experience is with GM transmissions.) adjustment right I’m confident that they at least used new fluid and filter. Nothing slips or leaks and shifts are smooth so I’m not inclined to start monkeying with opening things up. But if I get REALLY bored who knows what I might do.

Yup, leave it TF alone! ....and yeah, it's a TV (throttle valve) cable. I still own a GM vehicle, but it's a 69 with a turbo 400, so I have no idea if GM uses throttle valve cables now or just the kickdowns like they used to, or more than likely some kind of magical computer controlled wizard in a freakin' box that never gets anything right, like everyone else these days.

 

[any4xx]

Yup, leave it TF alone! ....and yeah, it's a TV (throttle valve) cable. I still own a GM vehicle, but it's a 69 with a turbo 400, so I have no idea if GM uses throttle valve cables now or just the kickdowns like they used to, or more than likely some kind of magical computer controlled wizard in a freakin' box that never gets anything right, like everyone else these days.

Everything they do is electronic now. One huge electrical plug. No more TV cables. And amazingly, pretty reliable.

 

[hear]

If you are worried about the transmission, and don't know the last time the fluid was changed, I'd change the fluid and filter, and while I was in there I'd adjust the bands. One is accessible without dropping the pan, but the other isn't.

There is zero reason to adjust the bands unless 2nd gear is being weird and/or Manual 1 isn't giving you engine braking and/or Reverse is being weird.

I do firmly advocate changing the fluid & filter. Don't buy the hype that changing the fluid can make it fail if it hadn't been changed in FOREVER. If it was going to fail, the debris suspended in the fluid is not what is allowing it to work. It was on the verge of failing anyway. And you're in the right place to fix it anyway.

 

[mrblaine]

Agreed. I feel like I have it “right.” But since this thing has been through several unknown-to-me owners I really want to get everything back to 100% factory settings as a baseline.

That will put you at a lower RPM shift than you'd like due to the larger tires. It is common to up the governor pressure to hold RPM a bit longer by adjusting the TV cable. Each click on the teeth is good for about a 6 psi change.

 

[hear]

Each click on the teeth is good for about a 6 psi change.

Is that documented, or did you guys actually run pressure tests to determine that? Cool either way, definitely never seen that info before.

 

[mrblaine]

Is that documented, or did you guys actually run pressure tests to determine that? Cool either way, definitely never seen that info before.

I got that from my transmission builder.

 

[hardtailpan]

There is zero reason to adjust the bands unless 2nd gear is being weird and/or Manual 1 isn't giving you engine braking and/or Reverse is being weird.

I do firmly advocate changing the fluid & filter. Don't buy the hype that changing the fluid can make it fail if it hadn't been changed in FOREVER. If it was going to fail, the debris suspended in the fluid is not what is allowing it to work. It was on the verge of failing anyway. And you're in the right place to fix it anyway.

If I've opened it up for a filter change, I would adjust the bands.

 

[hardtailpan]

I got that from my transmission builder.

This is very interesting.

 

[hear]

If I've opened it up for a filter change, I would adjust the bands.

Why? If you're going to tell somebody to start messing with their transmission you should at least have a good reason as to why.

Regardless, the only band that needs the pan removed to be adjusted is the low/reverse band which generally speaking sees virtually no wear and is very unlikely to need an adjustment.

 

[hardtailpan]

Why? If you're going to tell somebody to start messing with their transmission you should at least have a good reason as to why.

Regardless, the only band that needs the pan removed to be adjusted is the low/reverse band which generally speaking sees virtually no wear and is very unlikely to need an adjustment.

Because: Band adjustment is done as a normal maintenance procedure. It's not surgery into the transmission itself. I haven't rebuilt as many of these as you, but I may have owned more of them than you, and band adjustments are always done as normal maintenance with filter and fluid changes. This isn't something I'd consider "messing" with a transmission. This sort of thing was very normal and routine on all 904/727 mopar transmissions, of which our 32rh is part of that family. I've owned at least 1/2 dozen of these vehicles, and always performed band adjustments during fluid changes.

@hear: I respect your expertise on these transmissions, but this may be an area we just need to agree to disagree. If it's apart enough for band adjustments, I do em.

 

[hear]

Sorry, I did come off pretty harsh in my reply.

Are saying re-set it to factory spec? I don't have an issue with that, but it would be interesting to know, but hard to measure, what it was currently set to. At the same time, if you "frequently" re-set it to factory spec, then you really don't have any data on if not doing it would lead to degraded performance. I would venture that >> 90% of owners did not do that maintenance item....but who is to say if that ultimately shortened/lengthened/did nothing to transmission life?

For me, this would definitely fall into the category of if it ain't broke don't fix it. I think the odds of somebody screwing it up is much higher than the odds of it being improved by adjusting it. Especially the kickdown band, since the grime on the threads & hold down nut can make it hard to torque down the nut to spec w/o having the adjuster screw also move on you. Never mind all the crap in the way in that spot.

 

[hardtailpan]

Sorry, I did come off pretty harsh in my reply.

Are saying re-set it to factory spec? I don't have an issue with that, but it would be interesting to know, but hard to measure, what it was currently set to. At the same time, if you "frequently" re-set it to factory spec, then you really don't have any data on if not doing it would lead to degraded performance. I would venture that >> 90% of owners did not do that maintenance item....but who is to say if that ultimately shortened/lengthened/did nothing to transmission life?

For me, this would definitely fall into the category of if it ain't broke don't fix it. I think the odds of somebody screwing it up is much higher than the odds of it being improved by adjusting it. Especially the kickdown band, since the grime on the threads & hold down nut can make it hard to torque down the nut to spec w/o having the adjuster screw also move on you. Never mind all the crap in the way in that spot.

Ha, no worries, I've got a very thick skin!

Anyway, yes, that is exactly what I'm saying, set everything back to where God intended per the FSM. When I get a new to me vehicle, one of the first things I try to do is change all of the fluids. Anytime I change fluid in an automatic that has adjustable bands, I adjust them. It doesnt' get done very often, as the change interval for the fluid is pretty high, I think around 30-60k miles for the 32rh depending on use.....and yes, I have always just re-set them to factory specs.

That said, I do agree that it is something that has to be done carefully and properly and with the right tools. I have a relatively new, very fine 1/4" inch pound torque wrench that only comes out for sensitive adjustments such as this one. I agree that while the transmission is in the vehicle the outside band adjustment is difficult and deserves special attention.

I also agree that automatic transmission maintenance is a task that has been neglected by many people on a lot of vehicles. It's a lot more involved than changing engine oil and filter on most autos. I remember when I was a kid a million years ago and people would tell you not to service the transmission if it was high mileage and hadn't been serviced as it would lead to transmssion failure. Man that was dumb. It probaby happened that way because the transmission was failing anyway and they decided to try to save it with a fluid and filter change and it ultimately failed anyway.