Novak Conversions Jeep Wrangler TJ engine mounts

What did you do to your TJ today?

Unfortunately, the geometry of that steering design creates bump steer. Here is why:

In a live axle positioned with a panhard (track) bar, as the front suspension cycles the axle moves side to side along the arc created at the axle side of the panhard bar. At the same time, the steering knuckle moves side to side along the arc created at the axle side of the drag link.

When the axle cycles up and down, if the two arcs are identical the axle and the knuckle move side to side at the exact same rate, and the wheels continue to point in the direction of travel. If the two arcs are not identical, the steering knuckle moves at a different rate relative to the axle, causing the wheels to deviate from the direction of travel. This is bump steer.

The easiest way to make these arcs identical (and the easiest way to understand it - see my stock comment below) is to have the track bar and the drag link be the exact same length, and parallel to one another. This way the axle and the knuckle move side to side at the exact same rate, and the wheels continue to point in the direction of travel - meaning no bump steer.

Here is your setup - the red lines indicating the position of the track bar and the drag link. They are neither the same length, nor close to being parallel.

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Now picture what happens when the axle cycles up and down. Because of the different arcs created by the panhard bar and the drag link, the steering knuckle will move relative to the axle and deviate from the direction of travel. This is the reason crossover steering does not work well in the TJ when using a panhard bar in the stock location. It takes surprisingly little difference in these arcs to create bump steer

Now to complicate it just a bit, if you look closely at the stock TJ inverted Y setup, I believe the drag link and the track bar are neither the exact same length, nor perfectly parallel (it's been quite a while since I've seen a stock setup, so working from memory). However, they are engineered in such a way that the axle side arcs created by each are identical within the range of travel of the stock TJ - and therefore no bump steer.

A very easy way to identify if you have bump steer (other than noticing the effects) is to drive straight over a speed bump with your hands off of the wheel. If the steering wheel moves at all as the front suspension cycles, you have bump steer.

Amen.
 
Unfortunately, the geometry of that steering design creates bump steer. Here is why:

In a live axle positioned with a panhard (track) bar, as the front suspension cycles the axle moves side to side along the arc created at the axle side of the panhard bar. At the same time, the steering knuckle moves side to side along the arc created at the axle side of the drag link.

When the axle cycles up and down, if the two arcs are identical the axle and the knuckle move side to side at the exact same rate, and the wheels continue to point in the direction of travel. If the two arcs are not identical, the steering knuckle moves at a different rate relative to the axle, causing the wheels to deviate from the direction of travel. This is bump steer.

The easiest way to make these arcs identical (and the easiest way to understand it - see my stock comment below) is to have the track bar and the drag link be the exact same length, and parallel to one another. This way, during cycling the axle and the knuckle move side to side at the exact same rate, and the wheels continue to point in the direction of travel - meaning no bump steer.

Here is your setup - the red lines indicating the position of the track bar and the drag link. They are neither the same length, nor close to being parallel.

View attachment 620232

Now picture what happens when the axle cycles up and down. Because of the different arcs created by the panhard bar and the drag link, the steering knuckle will move relative to the axle and deviate from the direction of travel. This is the reason crossover steering does not work well in the TJ when using a panhard bar in the stock location. It takes surprisingly little difference in these arcs to create bump steer

Now to complicate it just a bit, if you look closely at the stock TJ inverted Y setup, I believe the drag link and the track bar are neither the exact same length, nor perfectly parallel (it's been quite a while since I've seen a stock setup, so working from memory). However, they are engineered in such a way that the axle side arcs created by each are identical within the range of travel of the stock TJ - and therefore no bump steer.

A very easy way to identify if you have bump steer (other than noticing the effects) is to drive straight over a speed bump with your hands off of the wheel. If the steering wheel moves at all as the front suspension cycles, you have bump steer.
That's not 100% the case in every set up.

I can tell you that I've driven it several times since doing the steering and have had zero bump steer. It tracks straight at all speeds with no hands on the steering wheel.

Thanks for the "lesson" after answering your question with the opposite of the "lesson". I'm married, I don't need someone else telling me I'm wrong after I answer their question.
 
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A very easy way to identify if you have bump steer (other than noticing the effects) is to drive straight over a speed bump with your hands off of the wheel. If the steering wheel moves at all as the front suspension cycles, you have bump steer.
I took your advice on that, but you forget to specify at what speed to hit the speed bump (hands free). Bump steer? :unsure:

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Plugged it back into the battery tender. :( After trying 2 different oil sending units, and both of them dropping to 0 about 3/4s of the way home from work, I decided to park it till we have time to replace the oil pump. Hubby is having his springs on his F550 "softened" a bit, so once those are done and back on, the Jeep is next. :D

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That's not 100% the case in every set up.

I can tell you that I've driven it several times since doing the steering and have had zero bump steer. It tracks straight at all speeds with no hands on the steering wheel.

Thanks for the "lesson" after answering your question with the opposite of the "lesson". I'm married, I don't need someone else telling me I'm wrong after I answer their question.

Nice ninja edit. Your original reply was fine, but you felt the need to go back two hours later and add the text which I have bolded? OK.

I certainly meant no offense, which for some reason you took. That was not my intent, and if you took offense to my response I apologize.

However, since you elected to poke me a bit with that add, I'll add this: Your description of "tracks straight at all speeds with no hands on the steering wheel" may be correct - but it indicates that you do not understand bump steer. Speed has nothing to do with bump steer, and the worst bump-steer setup ever installed will also go straight down a level road with no steering input. It would only be evident when you hit a bump hard enough to have the front end dive and raise quite a bit. As I said, run over a speed bump and see what happens.

I am reasonably certain that your knowledge of steering geometry is limited. Otherwise, you would never have installed that system. If you don't want to step back and try to learn something, that's OK too.

But I'm glad to hear you don't have bump steer. I'm fairly certain that anyone here that takes a look at your setup will be hard pressed to believe that.
 
Didn't do much work this weekend, but planned a temporary bandaid on Gerty's rusted out rockers. Going to put some 1/4" PVC over her rusted through rockers as a temporary cosmetic measure until we get a MIG and can do some real body repair work.

Wife put spending freeze on Jeep for a while; the "but we saved $X by doing the work ourselves" got me the eye roll and the look, so decided not to show her the $500 Hobart with tank, cart, mask and gloves on FB marketplace as a possible father's day present...

Kid took the top off and burned a tank of gas cruising around with his buddy today.

Wife referred to Gerty as a "Mr. Potato Head" talking to her mom this afternoon. Something about how she looks out in the garage we have a bunch of parts off then she comes back later and they're all back on. She's asked me a couple of times "is it safe to drive?". Not sure how to answer that other than to note that my real mechanic buddy who did the alignment after we replaced the ball joints and front steering components blessed the installation and said we put it all back together correctly...
 
Nice ninja edit. Your original reply was fine, but you felt the need to go back two hours later and add the text which I have bolded? OK.

I certainly meant no offense, which for some reason you took. That was not my intent, and if you took offense to my response I apologize.

However, since you elected to poke me a bit with that add, I'll add this: Your description of "tracks straight at all speeds with no hands on the steering wheel" may be correct - but it indicates that you do not understand bump steer. Speed has nothing to do with bump steer, and the worst bump-steer setup ever installed will also go straight down a level road with no steering input. It would only be evident when you hit a bump hard enough to have the front end dive and raise quite a bit. As I said, run over a speed bump and see what happens.

I am reasonably certain that your knowledge of steering geometry is limited. Otherwise, you would never have installed that system. If you don't want to step back and try to learn something, that's OK too.

But I'm glad to hear you don't have bump steer. I'm fairly certain that anyone here that takes a look at your setup will be hard pressed to believe that.
Yes I went back and edited it. I will let anyone come to Indiana and drive the Jeep and see there is no bump steer. If you have ever been to Indiana, you would know that our roads suck and have bumps all over the place.

I have plenty of knowledge of steering geometrity. It's been a shitty day for me and you were an easy target. The internet sucks.
 
Plugged it back into the battery tender. :( After trying 2 different oil sending units, and both of them dropping to 0 about 3/4s of the way home from work, I decided to park it till we have time to replace the oil pump. Hubby is having his springs on his F550 "softened" a bit, so once those are done and back on, the Jeep is next. :D

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I love old school. A true relic right here.

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I love old school. A true relic right here.

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I have several handy Milwaukee lights and they truly are handy due to their size&whatnot
But yeah those old retractable ones with an Led bulb are hard to beat......up until you yank it too hard cause you're too far and now your cursing as your slowly coming out from under your jeep 😆😆
Been there done that,still do it🤣

Edit-Damn autocorrect
 
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Didn't do much work this weekend, but planned a temporary bandaid on Gerty's rusted out rockers. Going to put some 1/4" PVC over her rusted through rockers as a temporary cosmetic measure until we get a MIG and can do some real body repair work.

Wife put spending freeze on Jeep for a while; the "but we saved $X by doing the work ourselves" got me the eye roll and the look, so decided not to show her the $500 Hobart with tank, cart, mask and gloves on FB marketplace as a possible father's day present...

Kid took the top off and burned a tank of gas cruising around with his buddy today.

Wife referred to Gerty as a "Mr. Potato Head" talking to her mom this afternoon. Something about how she looks out in the garage we have a bunch of parts off then she comes back later and they're all back on. She's asked me a couple of times "is it safe to drive?". Not sure how to answer that other than to note that my real mechanic buddy who did the alignment after we replaced the ball joints and front steering components blessed the installation and said we put it all back together correctly...

You're not alone in everything you just described.... We've all been there at one point, or another (or all the time...) ;)

Sounds like you have a good one there who is as patient as we can all hope our significant-other is on our addiction....

Kid did it right! Good on you giving him that time - memories that he'll have forever!
 
I love old school. A true relic right here.

View attachment 620316

So true! Have my handy-me-down still in use in my garage...

Can't tell for sure but it looks like it has the same upgrade I (took too long to do) did a couple years back and throw in an LED bulb. Finally stopped the regular bulb filament breaking and the light turning off when I tossed it 1 foot under a vehicle....
 
I have several handy Milwaukee lights and they truly are handy due to their size&whatnot
But yeah those old retractable ones with an Led bulb are hard to beat......up until you yank it too hard cause your too far and now your cursing as your slowly come out from under your jeep 😆😆
Been there done that,still do it🤣

LED was not invented when I continuously burned the shiz out of myself with incandescent bulbs. Had both, the retractable and the regular one. Now I don't work on my cars unless it is light outside. Needing a light means Yabba Dabba Doo time.
 
Took my wife and daughter in law and grandchild into town in the LJR-

Sitting here watching “how to increase your rubber frog hookups” on YouTube and just chilling out-

Hadn’t posted much and thought I better step it up

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Random strangers ask me how to get their black paint this shiny- answer: don’t jack it up


Don’t let things stay on your paint, ever. Road salts, bird crap and all that’s out there can attack paint. Don’t overwash, but keep it reasonably clean. Trees are horrible for paint.


Spray it hard first- wash away the contaminants

Use a fresh wash cloth

Apply soap directly to the rag to lubricate it

Start on the hood - it ain’t a car

Was toward the windshield and away, no circular motion

Blot it dry or use a blower

Then quikwax black tone spray wax on a new cloth

Just my 5cents worth - I’ve broke every rule above on some vehicles, just not this one.

I named it George. Because I was like , lord please let me get this LJR, I will hug him and squeeze him and call him George.

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Dashboard painted… used dupli-color vinyl and fabric paint… it says it’s also good on plastic we will see. I did put down a plastic adhesion primer first.
The weather turned to crap so will repaint the centre console and Ammo box next weekend.
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Unfortunately no pics but some minor progress. NP231 pulled and 241 in place. Nuts from 231 removal were in shit condition so 6 new ones are in route. Got the cable shifter adjusted wiring adapted. Also went to install Barnett dif cover but the fill plug they supplied would not thread in to the bung they installed. Too much powder coat in the threads and I think the thread bung was buggered up also. Short trip out to Ed the heavy equipment repair guy and he had a properly sized tap for a quick repair. Go for install again and realize my “new to me” Dana 44 front has one cover hole stripped out 🤦‍♂️.
Working 12 hour days so getting to the proper store for a helicoil kit is gonna be tough, maybe I’ll get my bride to go.
One pic for the team…

Left to right, my son Ben, my good friend Rory, my cousin Sean from south Jersey and me. This is the soggy bottom boys, we took the Tiger Cruise together last year. This was our memorial weekend trip to Citi Field. Ben was in NYC for fleet week.

Thanks for reading 🇺🇸


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Novak Conversions Jeep Wrangler TJ engine mounts