Woodrow's 97 Green TJ Moderate Build

[srimes]

Those are called Wellnuts. We used them to hold the windscreens on superbikes. They are essentially a rubber nutsert, and they’re used when removability or vibration damping is required. Unfortunately, I doubt you’ll get them airtight. It’ll be a slow leak, like a nail in a tire.

I hope I’m wrong, though!

A flat tire patch over the hole on the inside should work if you can get the cement to stick to the wheel.

Or a metal patch glued on. Could use epoxy, or a sealant like 3M 5200.

A well nut sufficiently gooped up with sealant should work. A blob under the gorilla tape may do the trick.

 

[sab]

Wildman beat me to it. You could also use the flush mount valve stem as a plug for that hole. There is such a thing as a valve stem hole plug, but I've only ever seen them for the larger 5/8" DIA hole for TPMS units. Maybe someone makes one for the smaller 29/64" valve stem hole. If not, you could drill out the old hole to 5/8" and install the TPMS valve stem hole plug.

 

[sab]

Is it a well nut that our TJ’s have on the ac condenser connection to the grille?

My '05 LJ, which I believe has all OEM parts up there, has speed nuts (also called Tinnerman nuts). The parts manual lists them as U-nuts, but I've not seen that term used before.

 

[mrblaine]

My '05 LJ, which I believe has all OEM parts up there, has speed nuts (also called Tinnerman nuts). The parts manual lists them as U-nuts, but I've not seen that term used before.

He caught you on the edit. He orginally had radiator and then edited in condenser. Speed nuts typically do not have the extruded tube with internal threads like the extruded U-nuts have. This is what is typically referred to as a speed nut.

Extruded U nut but the OEM style have the little holed retainer that snaps into the base hole in the sheetmetal that needs to be lifted to remove the nut. They are used at 3 places per side for the radiator to grill mounting in the 97-04 and in 05-06 they dropped to 2 per side. That said, they are not a conventional extruded U-nut but a very wide pattern version that is not available in the aftermarket that I've been able to find.

Oddly, there is another version that instead of having machine threads, they have sheet metal screw threads and they are used to attach the door pull to the door.

Some investigation into Tinnerman shows you are correct though, they could be called Tinnerman nuts, just without the "speed" designator. Tinnerman makes all the same J and U nuts we run into which means using Tinnerman is about the same as using Pop-Rivet. There are 100's of variations.

 

[Woodrow]

Those are called Wellnuts. We used them to hold the windscreens on superbikes. They are essentially a rubber nutsert, and they’re used when removability or vibration damping is required. Unfortunately, I doubt you’ll get them airtight. It’ll be a slow leak, like a nail in a tire.

I hope I’m wrong, though!

Thanks for the terminology assist. Air tight would be great. I’d settle for air resistant. If I need to add a few psi every few weeks, I’m OK with that. I may be more willing to tolerate a slow leak than some. Tubeless MTB tires always bleed air to varying degrees. I’m pretty picky about tire pressure on bikes (+/- 0.5 PSI) and so I check and adjust before every ride. Also, a dirty secret about the Coyote set up is they are difficult to get completely sealed. So I’m already adding air occasionally.

I know you've already drilled one wheel but have you thought about flush mount valve stems?

View attachment 652753

https://racelinewheels.com/products...x8qchKzJGyhorfNT9sCsInV7VFcm53zibAlGRaDS-7SkE

Cool! I did not know about those. Unfortunately, that wouldn’t work directly with the Coyote system because the valve requires their air channel. Although it might be possible to fabricate a channel using those. hmmm….

 

[Woodrow]

Is it a well nut that our TJ’s have on the ac condenser connection to the grille?

AC?

 

[sab]

Some investigation into Tinnerman shows you are correct though, they could be called Tinnerman nuts, just without the "speed" designator. Tinnerman makes all the same J and U nuts we run into which means using Tinnerman is about the same as using Pop-Rivet. There are 100's of variations.

Thanks for that detailed lesson, especially as regards where the different variations are used on the TJ! I believe it was the old-timers (now long gone, I'm afraid) at Harley who first introduced me to the Tinnerman moniker for those, and they used them for all variations of a clip-on nut.

 

[sab]

... a dirty secret about the Coyote set up is they are difficult to get completely sealed. So I’m already adding air occasionally.

I considered them for my build but ended up buying Hutchinson bead locks. I didn't know about the leakiness of the Coyotes, so I'm glad I didn't go that route because air leaks drive me crazy. As you've probably read, I'm currently battling through air leaks for my onboard air system in my build thread...

 

[sab]

He caught you on the edit. He orginally had radiator and then edited in condenser.

LOL. Yes, I was replying to several posts and didn't realize that he'd edited his. I actually walked out to the shop to look at the radiator mounting on the LJ in between reading the original and replying to it. When I hit reply, I didn't read his edit! Sorry, JMT.

 

[mrblaine]

Thanks for that detailed lesson, especially as regards where the different variations are used on the TJ! I believe it was the old-timers (now long gone, I'm afraid) at Harley who first introduced me to the Tinnerman moniker for those, and they used them for all variations of a clip-on nut.

Pedantry is useful, pedantry is not useful. I wish at times I had a choice. To be fair, most of it comes from trying to find stuff that I need for various projects and without specific search terms, that can suck more than a little. Nowadays it almost doesn't matter, they have allowed and encouraged the dilution of accuracy to the point I can do a search for a specific style lug nut and dimensional lumber will be included in the results.

 

[sab]

Pedantry is useful, pedantry is not useful. I wish at times I had a choice. To be fair, most of it comes from trying to find stuff that I need for various projects and without specific search terms, that can suck more than a little. Nowadays it almost doesn't matter, they have allowed and encouraged the dilution of accuracy to the point I can do a search for a specific style lug nut and dimensional lumber will be included in the results.

I was sincere in my thanks because I'm a pedantic feller, too! Terminology is important (especially in the engineering world) and AI is making us dumber as a society quicker than I thought it would. I try to get the younger engineers I work with to stop using AI, but they won't. Laziness is a trait that's hard to correct, sadly.

 

[mrblaine]

LOL. Yes, I was replying to several posts and didn't realize that he'd edited his. I actually walked out to the shop to look at the radiator mounting on the LJ in between reading the original and replying to it. When I hit reply, I didn't read his edit! Sorry, JMT.

Correctly, they are a 1/4-20 well nut with a .500 body, a 1/16" flange with an OD of .750 and a length of .801. Oddly specific but I'm reworking my cooler mount in the grill and from the factory, the lower mount on the condenser actually makes contact with the lower V bar mounting screw. I'm adding thickness to the V bar so that makes the contact worse which I've solved with an identical well nut that has a thicker 3/16" flange to move the condenser towards the motor a small amount.
Contact is on the bend where the circle is.

 

[JMT]

LOL. Yes, I was replying to several posts and didn't realize that he'd edited his. I actually walked out to the shop to look at the radiator mounting on the LJ in between reading the original and replying to it. When I hit reply, I didn't read his edit! Sorry, JMT.

No reason you should have caught my edit except after your post, so no worries. I was originally going off memory and once again it was failing me. I’ve only been there once and got confused. Then it came to me that it was the condenser. I thought they were called well nuts because I made a blunder when I was working there and it came up. This is what I found as far as a replacement, but if there’s some dilution of terminology I want to correct that.

https://regionoffroadparts.com/prod...c-condenser-mounting-hardware-bolts-well-nuts

 

[JMT]

AC?

My understanding is that the condenser is part of the AC system that functions as a heat exchanger, and is sometimes referred to as an AC condenser. I’m not even batting .100 lately, so if I’m wrong please correct me.

 

[mrblaine]

No reason you should have caught my edit except after your post, so no worries. I was originally going off memory and once again it was failing me. I’ve only been there once and got confused. Then it came to me that it was the condenser. I thought they were called well nuts because I made a blunder when I was working there and it came up. This is what I found as far as a replacement, but if there’s some dilution of terminology I want to correct that.

https://regionoffroadparts.com/prod...c-condenser-mounting-hardware-bolts-well-nuts

There is not a single thing wrong with that kit. I would never build it that way though. The threaded insert in the well nut is brass. There is simply no need for a grade 8 fastener into a brass nut. I am not a fan of washers when a flange bolt can be substituted economically or at all. I'd swap my tie rod clamps to grade 8 flange bolts and nuts if I could ever find a fine thread version.

 

[Wildman]

Thanks for that detailed lesson, especially as regards where the different variations are used on the TJ! I believe it was the old-timers (now long gone, I'm afraid) at Harley who first introduced me to the Tinnerman moniker for those, and they used them for all variations of a clip-on nut.

I know I first learned of the well nuts on my Harley Road Glide windshields and then on the TJ A/C condenser.

 

[Woodrow]

I considered them for my build but ended up buying Hutchinson bead locks. I didn't know about the leakiness of the Coyotes, so I'm glad I didn't go that route because air leaks drive me crazy. As you've probably read, I'm currently battling through air leaks for my onboard air system in my build thread...

Of the four tires currently on my Jeep, the two in the front hold air with no leaks at all. The driver rear loses about 3 psi a week and the passenger rear about 1 psi a week getting them to completely seal requires a bit of luck and good technique. It’s enough work to redo it that I haven’t bothered.

 

[NashvilleTJ]

Those are called Wellnuts. We used them to hold the windscreens on superbikes. They are essentially a rubber nutsert, and they’re used when removability or vibration damping is required. Unfortunately, I doubt you’ll get them airtight. It’ll be a slow leak, like a nail in a tire.

I hope I’m wrong, though!

...and not just superbikes:

 

[Rickyd]

Of the four tires currently on my Jeep, the two in the front hold air with no leaks at all. The driver rear loses about 3 psi a week and the passenger rear about 1 psi a week getting them to completely seal requires a bit of luck and good technique. It’s enough work to redo it that I haven’t bothered.

Is it a leak to atmosphere or between the two chambers?

 

[Woodrow]

Is it a leak to atmosphere or between the two chambers?

Atmosphere from the outer low pressure chamber. The inner high pressure chamber has an inner tube and never leaks. That is one reason why a slow leak in the outer bothers me less.

You do need to be careful on set up though. The hole in the rim where the inner tube valve comes through is a potential leak point for the outer chamber. Its sealed with an o-ring on either side and there is a washer and nut on the outside. That nut needs to be tight for the seal. To accomplish that, you need 2 jam nuts on the valve stem to keep it from rotating and tearing the tube. I found that out the hard way the first time I did it