Novak Conversions Jeep Wrangler TJ engine mounts

Clicking when clutch is warm and pedal is depressed / released

MikekiM

TJ Expert
Original poster
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Nov 3, 2018
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Location
East of Montauk, NY
Ongoing issues with the clutch assembly following a transmission replacement a few months back. Replaced the NV3550 with a Novak turnkey AX15 and at that time replaced everything (except the flywheel) from the pilot bearing to the transfer case.

More info here. And here is the original transmission saga.
  • Once fully warmed, there is an audible and tactile CLICK when the clutch pedal is depressed and released.
  • No issues when the Jeep is cold... it feels and performs fantastic.
  • Happens when the jeep is running or off.
  • Sound is clearly coming from within the bell housing. It not pedal assembly related.
  • No change to shifting performance at all, though selecting a gear and releasing the clutch seems to make it easier to recreate the sound.
  • Replaced the clutch mc/slave and the TOB. Used U$ made Mopar parts for this.
  • Replaced the clutch, pressure plate & pilot bearing with a new LUK kit.
  • The fork was replaced in December.
  • Only thing we didn't change was the flywheel.
Shop is stumped. YouTube and Google are no help. Next step is the Jeep goes off to a transmission specialty shop.

 
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Does the click change with speed, gear, or RPM changes? Change in speed, loudness, sound. Or is it constant regardless?

No changes at all.

Once the jeep is warm it will click whether it's running of not.

Same whether the clutch is pumped in neutral (running or not). Or when making a gear change. Most noticeable advancing from a stop in first and second. Might be making the same noise in higher gears, but there is too much other sensory assault to hear or feel it.

No change in shifting performance.

Speed has no effect on it. Nor does RPM.

It can be heard and felt with virtually every press and again with every release of the clutch.

I am embarrassed to say how much I have spent on what could be witch hunt (Just a jeep thing). But it has been my daily driver for years. Loose the clutch twenty miles from civilization while camping or in afternoon rush our in NY. Not good no matter how you slice it. She is precariously close to become a driveway queen.. or someone else's problem.

Since November, two new LUK clutch kits, new Mopar MC & slave and three third part slave/MC prior, new Mopar TOB and the National TOB prior... plus the cost of the transmission and labor to repeat all of this stuff. You can probably do that math.
 
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No changes at all.

Once the jeep is warm it will click whether it's running of not.

Same whether the clutch is pumped in neutral (running or not). Or when making a gear change. Most noticeable advancing from a stop in first and second. Might be making the same noise in higher gears, but there is too much other sensory assault to hear or feel it.

No change in shifting performance.

Speed has no effect on it. Nor does RPM.

It can be heard and felt with virtually every press and again with every release of the clutch.

I am embarrassed to say how much I have spent on what could be witch hunt (Just a jeep thing). But it has been my daily driver for years. Loose the clutch twenty miles from civilization while camping or in afternoon rush our in NY. Not good no matter how you slice it. She is precariously close to become a driveway queen.. or someone else's problem.

Since November, two new LUK clutch kits, new Mopar MC & slave and three third part slave/MC prior, new Mopar TOB and the National TOB prior... plus the cost of the transmission and labor to repeat all of this stuff. You can probably do that math.

My jeep sample size is 2. My first with 140k and my current with 42k, bought in 2021 with 32k has made similar sounds. On my current 40k, been through 3 master/slave cylinders (OEM, LUK blew after 1 year, current O Riley) never had an issue on or off the road.

Think @SSTJ has had similar
 
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My jeep sample size is 2. My first with 140k and my current with 42k, bought in 2021 with 32k has made similar sounds. On my current 40k, been through 3 master/slave cylinders (OEM, LUK blew after 1 year, current O Riley) never had an issue on or off the road.

Think @SSTJ has had similar

Thanks for this.

I was under the Jeep while my daughter was cycling the clutch. It's clear the sound is coming from within the bell housing. Obvious when touching the bell housing; more so when touching the clutch slave and for reason even more so when touching the hydraulic hose to the slave.

The noise is definitely NOT coming from inside. Oddly enough, I chased an issue with a mind bending creaky clutch pedal after one of the MC/Slave changes. I lubed the crap out of every possible pivot or sliding point around the pedal assembly. Not sure exactly where the sound was coming from but eventually it stopped.
 
Thanks for this.

I was under the Jeep while my daughter was cycling the clutch. It's clear the sound is coming from within the bell housing. Obvious when touching the bell housing; more so when touching the clutch slave and for reason even more so when touching the hydraulic hose to the slave.

The noise is definitely NOT coming from inside. Oddly enough, I chased an issue with a mind bending creaky clutch pedal after one of the MC/Slave changes. I lubed the crap out of every possible pivot or sliding point around the pedal assembly. Not sure exactly where the sound was coming from but eventually it stopped.

May sound like a obvious question, but are the bolts that are hold the trans to the engine are fully torqued? IIRC there are two bolts that have a Rolled pin that the bolt slides through. it could be that those are not fully torqued and are causing a click.
 
May sound like a obvious question, but are the bolts that are hold the trans to the engine are fully torqued? IIRC there are two bolts that have a Rolled pin that the bolt slides through. it could be that those are not fully torqued and are causing a click.

Candidly, I can't say. I haven't been the one wrenching on it. I don't have the time, tools, space, lift, knowledge or inclination to try tackle this myself.

I'll share the info though, thank you.
 
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Thanks for this.

I was under the Jeep while my daughter was cycling the clutch. It's clear the sound is coming from within the bell housing. Obvious when touching the bell housing; more so when touching the clutch slave and for reason even more so when touching the hydraulic hose to the slave.

The noise is definitely NOT coming from inside. Oddly enough, I chased an issue with a mind bending creaky clutch pedal after one of the MC/Slave changes. I lubed the crap out of every possible pivot or sliding point around the pedal assembly. Not sure exactly where the sound was coming from but eventually it stopped.

Really strange, I just read through the other post on this and all the things you have addressed. Triple check all the involved mounting bolts. Master to firewall, slave to bellhousing, etc. Make sure nothing there is loose allowing something to shift under the pressure of operating the pedal. Also, follow the line from master to slave and make sure that it isn't flexing when operating the pedal and contacting something, a long shot but you never know. Did you lube the slave pushrod to pivot arm contact point? I doubt that is it but possible that it is shifting around and making the sound.
 
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I'm disappointed no one mentioned his knee. :sneaky:

Since November, two new LUK clutch kits, new Mopar MC & slave and three third part slave/MC prior, new Mopar TOB and the National TOB prior... plus the cost of the transmission and labor to repeat all of this stuff. You can probably do that math.

I was under the Jeep while my daughter was cycling the clutch. It's clear the sound is coming from within the bell housing.

Why 2 clutches in that short time frame? Did you do something wrong driving, or were they installed wrong? Did you pay someone or a shop to do the work? If you paid someone, I'd be making this their problem until proven otherwise.
 
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Was thinking on this again yesterday, It sounds crazy, Could be the shop has somehow installed the throw-out bearing fork spring incorrectly and that is causing the sound. When I listen to the video, aside from something possible wrong with the pedal box, it seems likely that could be the issue due to you saying you can feel it in the bell housing.
 
May sound like a obvious question, but are the bolts that are hold the trans to the engine are fully torqued? IIRC there are two bolts that have a Rolled pin that the bolt slides through. it could be that those are not fully torqued and are causing a click.
Based on the parts changed so far with zero change in the click and when it happens, the probability of leaving the bolts loose the same amount through a couple of trans swaps is extremely low. Same with all other bolts. The heat is the clue. Something is changing when it warms up. Given the changing out of all other related parts in that area, that only leaves the snout the throw-out bearing sits on. Not sure what or how, but that is about the only thing that hasn't been swapped out.
 
Mine makes a click when pushing in or letting out; cold, warm, hot; doesn't matter. Always has done it since I've owned it. I'm assuming its the original clutch (based on mileage) and figure its normal or at least acceptable.
 
Really strange, I just read through the other post on this and all the things you have addressed. Triple check all the involved mounting bolts. Master to firewall, slave to bellhousing, etc. Make sure nothing there is loose allowing something to shift under the pressure of operating the pedal. Also, follow the line from master to slave and make sure that it isn't flexing when operating the pedal and contacting something, a long shot but you never know. Did you lube the slave pushrod to pivot arm contact point? I doubt that is it but possible that it is shifting around and making the sound.
Dustin, thank you for the feedback. I'm not doing the work myself. Would seem like a really long shot that the tech who is wrenching on it is leaving the same bolt loose each of the four times the transmission has come out. I do know they did lube the contact point. Admittedly, we should have changed the pivot arm again. Collectively, we missed that one.

I'm disappointed no one mentioned his knee. :sneaky:
My knee? As a source of a clicking sound? LOL.. not so far fetched. I have a knee that doesn't knee so well anymore.. but it's the other leg.

Why 2 clutches in that short time frame? Did you do something wrong driving, or were they installed wrong? Did you pay someone or a shop to do the work? If you paid someone, I'd be making this their problem until proven otherwise.
I didn't do anything wrong when driving and they didn't do anything wrong with the install. On the second removal they discovered one of the dampening springs was loose in its mount. Given how slight that sound was, and it being buried between the pressure plate and fly wheel deep in the bell housing, I was pretty confident that wasn't the issue. None the less, the clutch kit was warrantied and replaced.

I don't have the time, equipment, knowledge or inclination to do the work myself. In a vacuum, I get your comment about the shop being responsible. However, I know them for decades. They maintain all of my vehicles and are 100% there when I need them. They were fantastic during the initial transmission swap and charged me zero labor for all of the subsequent remove/installs. Most of the parts we changed, with the exception of the new Mopar bits, were warrantied. They are good guys. They aren't trying to ditch the issue and are as stumped as everyone else is.

Was thinking on this again yesterday, It sounds crazy, Could be the shop has somehow installed the throw-out bearing fork spring incorrectly and that is causing the sound. When I listen to the video, aside from something possible wrong with the pedal box, it seems likely that could be the issue due to you saying you can feel it in the bell housing.
This, I do not know. However, what's the likelihood that they made that same mistake multiple times. Possible. Not too likely.

Based on the parts changed so far with zero change in the click and when it happens, the probability of leaving the bolts loose the same amount through a couple of trans swaps is extremely low. Same with all other bolts. The heat is the clue. Something is changing when it warms up. Given the changing out of all other related parts in that area, that only leaves the snout the throw-out bearing sits on. Not sure what or how, but that is about the only thing that hasn't been swapped out.
100% in agreement with the heat being the major, if only contributing factor here. I alerted them of your suggestion. I thank you.

...normal or at least acceptable.
It didn't do it before or after the transmission swap. It started somewhere after one of the MC/Slaves went. Can't lie.. the timeline is becoming a blur. I'd have to go back to my log. I DD the Jeep and my confidence level has taken a huge hit. I am at that the point that it will either be relegated to Driveway Queen or sold. Already started shopping for a replacement.

The update is.. no update. I left the Jeep at a transmission specialty shop Monday. I've used them before and they were in communication with the shop that did the work. They didn't touch the Jeep for days. I brought it home last evening exactly how I left it there on Monday.

I have no plan other than to drive it until the clicking either goes away, the things blows up, I park it or sell it or I stumble across someone who can shed some light on it.
 
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I have no plan other than to drive it until the clicking either goes away, the things blows up, I park it or sell it or I stumble across someone who can shed some light on it.

I might have missed it, but are you having any other issues, or is it just the annoying clicking/creaking sound?
 
I might have missed it, but are you having any other issues, or is it just the annoying clicking/creaking sound?
Only issue is the clicking. The concern is whether it just annoying clicking (no creaking) or is something that is going to fail.

A few back, when this saga started, there was an annoying click. We assumed it was the MC/Slave going (I've been through three or four already) and ordered the Mopar unit. While waiting for delivery the National TOB installed when the transmission was swapped failed. Had to have the Jeep towed. Replaced the TOB and MC/Slave and once it was all back together the click returned.

So, is there something great afoot? How long before I am stranded again?

My confidence, and any fun, have all vanished.
 
Novak Conversions Jeep Wrangler TJ engine mounts