1st or 2nd gear start-offs

[Jedavisss8]

Hi all,
I am about much of a newbie as one can get as I have had my 2006 TJ Sport for all of 2 days.
I've driven manual transmissions in the past startingvwith a '59 Ford F100 with a 4-speed with a granny gear. I learned quickly it was ok to start off in 2nd gear.
The first gear in the TJ is low, but not as low as the Ford. Will I do any or significant damage to the clutch starting off in 2nd gear, except when facing uphill?
Thanks for your replies.

 

[macleanflood]

My wife's JK has that same 6 speed. Personally I start from a dead stop in 1st. Unless you're slipping the clutch constantly it's not going to do anything bad.

I used to have a 69 K20 and it had a granny low first gear...so yeah I know what you mean.

-Mac

 

[L J]

1st gear. I don't get the 2nd-gear-start thing. The NSG370 is no SM465. Even when I ran the little 30.5" tires I always started in 1st gear.

 

[Zorba]

1st gear. I don't get the 2nd-gear-start thing. The NSG370 is no SM465. Even when I ran the little 30.5" tires I always started in 1st gear.

This. I grew up with an SM-420, and am very much used to 2nd gear starts. But my Jeep's 1st is pretty much useless: It and 2nd aren't low enough for a 2nd gear start without slipping the clutch more than I'd like, but too low for 1st gear starts on the street - at least with 3.73 gears. I just barely get it rolling with 1st before I drop it into 2nd. This all means the Jeep creeps too fast in 1st/hi to be usable, so I have to shift to 1st/lo when parking the thing in my carport unless I want to fan the clutch. I don't want to fan the clutch. And the thing doesn't even have 2/lo capability - so I bought a conversion kit. Which should be an improvement, but I'll still have to shift "all the way through" to get 1st down to where I need it. Its not optimal by any means, but doable.

 

[JKP]

It all depends on your gearing/tire size.

I put 270K on the OEM clutch in my Rubi with 4.10s and 31s and very seldom used 1st on the street.

Your sport would have 3.07 or 3.73 I think. You can check the diff tags.

 

[SPECWAR]

I’ve been starting in 2nd ( except in extreme cases) for the past 22,000 miles and it hasn’t had any adverse effects that I know of.

 

[Cooper Smith]

Hi all,
I am about much of a newbie as one can get as I have had my 2006 TJ Sport for all of 2 days.
I've driven manual transmissions in the past startingvwith a '59 Ford F100 with a 4-speed with a granny gear. I learned quickly it was ok to start off in 2nd gear.
The first gear in the TJ is low, but not as low as the Ford. Will I do any or significant damage to the clutch starting off in 2nd gear, except when facing uphill?
Thanks for your replies.View attachment 633041

Most of what determines clutch lifespan is how much the clutch is slipped. The more you slip a clutch, the more it's wearing. My TJ was a 2.4 with a NV2550, starting off in second on a flat surface required a lot of slippage (like 4-5 seconds worth-- which is a lot). Although the clutch IS a wear item and won't be "destroyed" by starting off in second here and there, if I did that consistently (my setup was a 2.25:1 second ratio, 29" tires, and 4.10 gears), I'd probably be doing a clutch one or two times more than I'd like in the vehicle's lifespan.

Your engine has more low end torque, lower second gear while mine probably had a slightly lower axle ratio. So that said, if you're having to slip the clutch for more than maybe 2 seconds, I'd probably stick with first.

 

[glowell222]

I generally start in 2nd gear, unless I'm tooling around town, then it's 1st. You're out of the clutch faster in 1st, but it's not much different starting from 2nd. I don't even use the clutch for 3rd/4th-I just rev match.

 

[BlueC]

It all depends on your gearing/tire size.

There's the answer. Gear numbering means nothing. It's all load dependent.

 

[Rut Row]

1st gear (I have 5 speeds) unless I'm on a downhill slope the second or third depending on how steep.

 

[TheBoogieman]

I always used 2nd gear with my 6 speeds. Shifting gears within 15' of takeoff wasn't for me.

 

[jeepguy03]

My gearing is probably a bit different, since I have the 5-speed AX-15. I do have 3.73s with 31x10.5's. I start in 1st at a dead stop, but if I'm barely rolling (like a roll-through at a stop sign or a parking lot, I will start in 2nd.

Like mentioned above I think it has more to do with how much you slip the clutch. The 4.0L is a torquey engine, so you can probably start off in 2nd on flat ground without slipping the clutch much at all.

 

[AOSJ]

for folks who like to start off in 2nd, what RPM do you typically upshift at when starting in 1st? Sometimes I just get it moving in 1st, say less than 2000rpm, then go to 2nd, but if I'm on a decent uphill slope I will go to 3000 in 1st. The shift to 2nd is much smoother at 3000, but I'm not sure if that's too much stress on the motor, especially when cold. I kinda doubt that, but since I have a low miles rig I don't want to be too hard on it.

 

[BlueC]

Sometimes I just get it moving in 1st, say less than 2000rpm, then go to 2nd, but if I'm on a decent uphill slope I will go to 3000 in 1st. The shift to 2nd is much smoother at 3000, but I'm not sure if that's too much stress on the motor, especially when cold.

Short shifting (shifting too early) or starting in second for no real reason puts more stress on the engine, called "lugging". Generally you should start off in the lowest gear and be shifting around 3-3.5. Trying to operate sub 2000 RPM is putting way more stress and wear on your stuff than running in the 3000 range. I won't even put mine in 5th under 45 mph. Also, letting your engine idling to warm up puts a lot or undue wear if you do that.

 

[jeepguy03]

Short shifting (shifting too early) or starting in second for no real reason puts more stress on the engine, called "lugging". Generally you should start off in the lowest gear and be shifting around 3-3.5. Trying to operate sub 2000 RPM is putting way more stress and wear on your stuff than running in the 3000 range. I won't even put mine in 5th under 45 mph. Also, letting your engine idling to warm up puts a lot or undue wear if you do that.

+1

It really depends though. Short shifting on flat ground can save fuel (might not even be measurable in a TJ) versus winding it out to 3k+ RPM. There are a few roads on my commute where I will short shift from first to second, as they start out on a significant downhill from a stop. The 4.0L engine makes a lot of torque down low, so you won't really hurt it unless you are really lugging the engine (you'll know). I'd say the sweet spot is around 2500-2800 shifting for decent torque and fuel economy. With that said, the 4.0 really doesn't mind revving, so don't be afraid to rev it out. Like @BlueC stated, idling to warm up really does nothing besides burn fuel, the quickest way to warm it up is drive it gently for the first mile or so.

 

[Zorba]

I'd say the sweet spot is around 2500-2800 shifting for decent torque and fuel economy.

Here in Florida, its flat. Unless I'm doing a "jackrabbit start" (which I hate doing), I upshift around 2500.

 

[AOSJ]

+1

It really depends though. Short shifting on flat ground can save fuel (might not even be measurable in a TJ) versus winding it out to 3k+ RPM. There are a few roads on my commute where I will short shift from first to second, as they start out on a significant downhill from a stop. The 4.0L engine makes a lot of torque down low, so you won't really hurt it unless you are really lugging the engine (you'll know). I'd say the sweet spot is around 2500-2800 shifting for decent torque and fuel economy. With that said, the 4.0 really doesn't mind revving, so don't be afraid to rev it out. Like @BlueC stated, idling to warm up really does nothing besides burn fuel, the quickest way to warm it up is drive it gently for the first mile or so.

good stuff, @jeepguy03 and @BlueC - I will be "shifting later" more often then - much more than 3000 seems too much, but 2500-3000 feels and sounds good depending on where I'm driving

I am also rev-matching on downshifts by goosing the throttle, usually to about 2300 from 5th to 4th, and about 2500 from 4th to 3rd - I don't have many applications where I feel the need to downshift from 3rd to 2nd - usually I'm just coasting to a stop and take it out of gear

 

[BlueC]

good stuff, @jeepguy03 and @BlueC - I will be "shifting later" more often then - much more than 3000 seems too much, but 2500-3000 feels and sounds good depending on where I'm driving

2500-3000 will be better than lower RPM driving. Exceeding 3000 RRPM is not a problem. I typically shift in the 3000-3500 range, and that's not driving aggressively.

 

[Steel City 06]

1st on flat ground from a stop, 2nd if I'm already rolling slightly or pointing downhill.

As for when to shift, it all depends on conditions. Cruising on flat ground at a consistent low speed? 1,500 RPM is plenty. Merging onto the freeway on a short ramp? Floor it and shift at redline. Basically you use as much gear as you need for the situation.

Don't be afraid to skip gears too, especially with the 6-speed. Here in the Pittsburgh region, people tend to accelerate a lot harder than they do in other regions. (Probably a learned behavior from the hills and oddball road designs.) So it's not unusual for me to run it up to 3,500-4,000 in 2nd or 3rd and then skip a gear (or even two) into 4th or 5th to cruise.

If I'm cruising along at 1,800 RPM in 6th gear and then get an opportunity to pass someone, I'll shift straight from 6 to 3 and then run it right up to redline before going to 4th. The 6 to 3 downshift is very easy to do smoothly, just simply double the RPM before dropping the clutch and flooring it.

 

[lBasket]

Be a man. Shift over 4k, always