What is the best wheel offset to go with 35X12.5 tires?

[jjvw]

Tuned shocks/midarm will do little for you in an environment like this.

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Tire size and having a rig you can beat on, are much more important in my opinion.

If one avoids mud and snow entirely, then the equation changes, and the majority of trails here can be done by a well setup short arm 35s build.

For those who like to accuse certain aspects of the hobby as being elitist, you laid out a plausible possible divide. If mud and snow are better served by bashing your way through with a crude, ham fisted rig, then I'll keep doing what I'm doing.

Though I am deeply suspicious of the assertion that a well thought out build that includes good shocks and a well behaved suspension somehow wouldn't be of value in that environment.

 

[jjvw]

The Cooper’s and Baja Boss look more similar to me than either does to the MTR. As far as “ranking” what would be better I think that’s purely based on experimenting.

That asymmetrical tread pattern might be why many think of the Baja Boss as looking a bit like the MTR.

 

[PNW_LJ]

For those who like to accuse certain aspects of the hobby as being elitist, you laid out a plausible possible divide. If mud and snow are better served by bashing your way through with a crude, ham fisted rig, then I'll keep doing what I'm doing.

Not sure where you got all that, but it's really not that deep.

Though I am deeply suspicious of the assertion that a well thought out build that includes good shocks and a well behaved suspension somehow wouldn't be of value in that environment.

Both of those will make a rig more capable, the question is whether it solves a problem one actually has. In my opinion, builds are highly terrain and usage dependent. There is never a one size fits all solution, only something that is mediocre at everything.

If you ever happen to come up here, we would be happy to show you around some local trails

 

[jjvw]

Not sure where you got all that, but it's really not that deep.


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It's all there in what you wrote.

 

[JMT]

That asymmetrical tread pattern might be why many think of the Baja Boss as looking a bit like the MTR.

Hmm…you’re right, those two tires are assymetrical along the center of the tread pattern.

 

[psrivats]

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Both of those will make a rig more capable, the question is whether it solves a problem one actually has. In my opinion, builds are highly terrain and usage dependent. There is never a one size fits all solution, only something that is mediocre at everything.

...

Mediocrity happens when attention is not paid to details. I think you under estimate the capability a well set up rig on 35s (even short-arm). Emphasis on "well set up". You can build a rig that is reliable, will do 95% of the trails out there better than most "monster builds" and still have -0- bad manners on the road. The information on how to do that is out there and not difficult to find. But to execute that, one needs a lot of care and attention and that is where mistakes happen and mediocrity results.

Source: I own a rig with compromises and understand what they are. Took me time but I did understand.

 

[Apparition]

Hmm…you’re right, those two tires are assymetrical along the center of the tread pattern.

Asymmetrical makes them quieter on road.

 

[PNW_LJ]

Mediocrity happens when attention is not paid to details. I think you under estimate the capability a well set up rig on 35s (even short-arm). Emphasis on "well set up". You can build a rig that is reliable, will do 95% of the trails out there better than most "monster builds" and still have -0- bad manners on the road. The information on how to do that is out there and not difficult to find. But to execute that, one needs a lot of care and attention and that is where mistakes happen and mediocrity results.

Source: I own a rig with compromises and understand what they are. Took me time but I did understand.

This is only true if you build a rig for a specific set of uses.

I still maintain that there is no ideal rig or type of build, otherwise everyone would be driving it. Even the best builds (take some of Blaine’s for example), will struggle in some areas.

That is my philosophy and we can agree to disagree

 

[jjvw]

This is only true if you build a rig for a specific set of uses.

I still maintain that there is no ideal rig or type of build, otherwise everyone would be driving it. Even the best builds (take some of Blaine’s for example), will struggle in some areas.

That is my philosophy and we can agree to disagree

In the past, I have asked what it would take to turn mine into a mud rig. I don't get any interesting answers beyond the obvious change in tires that are better suited for mud rather than rocks and perhaps different gearing to get wheel spin.

 

[psrivats]

This is only true if you build a rig for a specific set of uses.

I still maintain that there is no ideal rig or type of build, otherwise everyone would be driving it. Even the best builds (take some of Blaine’s for example), will struggle in some areas.

That is my philosophy and we can agree to disagree

Don't let the tail wag the dog Everyone WOULD be driving it, if they could build it. They can't.

Tell me an area (other than perhaps very large tractor tire deep mud bogging or monster truck bouncing) that the below build will struggle. And tell me how.

 

[PRNDL]

Baja Boss | Cooper Evo MT | SST Pro | MTR

 

[psrivats]

In the past, I have asked what it would take to turn mine into a mud rig. I don't get any interesting answers beyond the obvious change in tires that are better suited for mud rather than rocks and perhaps different gearing to get wheel spin.

Are you mentally prepared to tie yourself to 4 other trucks for recovery, like they do when they climb hard alpine peaks, perhaps?

 

[jjvw]

Are you mentally prepared to tie yourself to 4 other trucks for recovery, like they do when they climb hard alpine peaks, perhaps?

It's an unfair line of questioning on my part since I do anything I can to avoid mud and snow wheeling offers little of interest to me.

Regardless, I can extrapolate fairly well what mine does and place it in another context. I can't come up with anything that is somehow a fundamental detriment to wallowing through a stagnant muck pit or being cold in the woods.

 

[PNW_LJ]

Don't let the tail wag the dog Everyone WOULD be driving it, if they could build it. They can't.

Why not? Are you implying everyone is too poor or too stupid/misinformed if they don’t build their rig a certain way?

Tell me an area (other than perhaps large tractor tire deep mud bogging) that the below build will struggle. And tell me how.


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Well for starters, I see no storage space in that rig. Makes it a no-go for any multi-day trip (or overlanding as the people like to call it).

I can’t imagine daily driving that in Seattle either, for several reasons.

That looks to be 65” WMS, which is just a tad bit too wide for some trails here (just ask @Wildman).

And all that fancy suspension work isn’t going to help you from sinking up to your diffs in the deep snow where you need 40s+.

I’m sure I could think of a couple more after work.



I’m not trying to rain on anyone’s parade here. It’s clear there is a certain build progression that tends to work for many folks on here, and that’s great. I’ll keep observing, learning and building my own “jack of all trades, master of none” rig.

 

[Apparition]

Portals, everybody needs portals

 

[psrivats]

Why not? Are you implying everyone is too poor or too stupid/misinformed if they don’t build their rig a certain way?

Because it is hard and most people don't have the patience for the level of rigor that is required. Then add the lack of understanding/knowledge on top and you end up with compromises.

 

[jjvw]

Why not? Are you implying everyone is too poor or too stupid/misinformed if they don’t build their rig a certain way?




Well for starters, I see no storage space in that rig. Makes it a no-go for any multi-day trip (or overlanding as the people like to call it).

I can’t imagine daily driving that in Seattle either, for several reasons.

That looks to be 65” WMS, which is just a tad bit too wide for some trails here (just ask @Wildman).

And all that fancy suspension work isn’t going to help you from sinking up to your diffs in the deep snow where you need 40s+.

I’m sure I could think of a couple more after work.



I’m not trying to rain on anyone’s parade here. It’s clear there is a certain build progression that tends to work for many folks on here, and that’s great. I’ll keep observing, learning and building my own “jack of all trades, master of none” rig.

Don't forget that this started with your observation that the rigs in the toughest trails out there are Toyotas on 40s with leafs, double and triple t- cases, and cut off shock mounts. Half of those things are more confusing to me than the others as being appropriate for the local terrain.

 

[PNW_LJ]

Don't forget that this started with your observation that the rigs in the toughest trails out there are Toyotas on 40s with leafs, double and triple t- cases, and cut off shock mounts. Half of those things are more confusing to me than the others as being appropriate for the local terrain.

I never claimed those rigs were perfect.

Just well apt at handling the trails they were built for.

 

[jjvw]

I never claimed those rigs were perfect.

Just well apt at handling the trails they were built for.

I understand where larger tires can be a benefit, as well as a way to hide poor performance elsewhere. I understand that a lot of Toyota guys run multi tcases as a way to get past shortcomings of their little 4 cylinder engines pushing big tires.

I don't understand why a leaf spring suspension would be preferable over linked coil. Or how anyone could justify chopping off the shock mounts as an improvement. Perhaps you left out a 2nd step in that particular thought and these guys aren't running around in the mud and snow in their bouncy trucks without shocks of any kind.

 

[Lou]

I understand where larger tires can be a benefit, as well as a way to hide poor performance elsewhere. I understand that a lot of Toyota guys run multi tcases as a way to get past shortcomings of their little 4 cylinder engines pushing big tires.

I don't understand why a leaf spring suspension would be preferable over linked coil. Or how anyone could justify chopping off the shock mounts as an improvement. Perhaps you left out a 2nd step in that particular thought and these guys aren't running around in the mud and snow in their bouncy trucks without shocks of any kind.

Don’t argue with the children.