Why are my tires not holding a bead off road?

[GregBelleville]

Bit of a back story on this new to me set of tires. Falken MT01

I bought this as a set of 5 slightly used tires off of marketplace a few months ago. The prior owner bought them for his OBS Ford but they rubbed too much so they were replaced after a few weeks.

The tires are in like new condition, but had a 6 year old date code on them. I bought these because the rubber was in like new condition, the tires were 6 years old but had been stored indoors the entire time so I didn't think it's a tire age issue, but school me if you think I'm wrong please.

Because of their age I could only get an independent tire shop to mount and balance these tires, none of the chain shops would touch them, so sharing that as a possible factor.

Anyway, I've now got two off road trips under my belt on these and between these two trips I've had 3 flats due to losing the bead on the rim. It's been a different tire each time. Twice the tires got so low they started rubbing and yesterday it lost the bead entirely to where I had to lift the Jeep to get the tire reseated on the rim. Each time I've been aired down to 10 psi.

Any ideas why this is happening and what I can do about it? I never had this problem with the prior set of BFG AT2s I had on it going down to the same tire pressure on the same trails.

 

[bbaldwin237]

Are they the same wheels you were using before?

I'm guessing that they have a more pliable sidewall that is flexing and peeling them off of the bead.

 

[GregBelleville]

Are they the same wheels you were using before?

I'm guessing that they have a more pliable sidewall that is flexing and peeling them off of the bead.

Yes same wheels. The sidewall says it is a 3 ply sidewall, maybe that's part of the problem? I think the BFGs are 10 ply? They are load range c as well, but so were my BFGs.

 

[Vtx531]

Because of their age I could only get an independent tire shop to mount and balance these tires, none of the chain shops would touch them, so sharing that as a possible factor.

Was it a back alley type of place?

Actual tire lube that is made for tire mounting is designed to be slippery enough to mount the tire and then dry out after to the point where it doesn't allow the tire to slip. Some places might save money by using soapy water (doesn't have corrosion inhibitors), or silicone/grease (too slippery, never dries, degrades rubber). I wonder if maybe they used silicone or grease to mount the tires and that's why they are too slippery?

 

[bbaldwin237]

Yes same wheels. The sidewall says it is a 3 ply sidewall, maybe that's part of the problem? I think the BFGs are 10 ply? They are load range c as well, but so were my BFGs.

The sidewall on the BFG is also 3-ply. That's pretty standard for good AT and MT tires. If the BFGs were Load C they should be 6-ply rated, not 10. Are you sure they weren't Load E? 10 PSI is where more guys will start to lose beads, but it's very wheel, tire, and situation dependent. Before I got my new wheels, I was running as low as 8 with no issues on my 35s. 10psi may just be too low?

 

[John Cooper]

Greg what is the tire width and what is your wheel width?

 

[GregBelleville]

Was it a back alley type of place?

Yes, it was a used tire type of place.

 

[GregBelleville]

The sidewall on the BFG is also 3-ply. That's pretty standard for good AT and MT tires. If the BFGs were Load C they should be 6-ply rated, not 10. Are you sure they weren't Load E? 10 PSI is where more guys will start to lose beads, but it's very wheel, tire, and situation dependent. Before I got my new wheels, I was running as low as 8 with no issues on my 35s. 10psi may just be too low?

My BFGs were load c I went back and found a photo.

That's what I'm trying to figure out is whether I'm just running too low of a pressure for this particular set of tires or if it's possibly related to the bubba at the used tire shop that installed these.

 

[GregBelleville]

Greg what is the tire width and what is your wheel width?

Tires are 33 12.5 15s. I believe the wheels are American Racing 172s which are 8".

 

[GregBelleville]

Actual tire lube that is made for tire mounting is designed to be slippery enough to mount the tire and then dry out after to the point where it doesn't allow the tire to slip. Some places might save money by using soapy water (doesn't have corrosion inhibitors), or silicone/grease (too slippery, never dries, degrades rubber). I wonder if maybe they used silicone or grease to mount the tires and that's why they are too slippery?

Is this something that I could do myself now that the tires are already mounted? Could I completely deflate the tire on the rim and clean up the mounting surface and get some tire lube?

 

[John Cooper]

Tires are 33 12.5 15s. I believe the wheels are American Racing 172s which are 8".

Thats a good fit. You may try 15psi and see if there is any difference. It very well could be the difference in sidewalls.

 

[John Cooper]

Is this something that I could do myself now that the tires are already mounted? Could I completely deflate the tire on the rim and clean up the mounting surface and get some tire lube?

You might be able to. If you deflate them and clean them, you can use a strap to get them seated again no lube needed, the tire soap is more to mount the tire than for bead seating.

Probably to seat the bead just use water.

 

[Vtx531]

Is this something that I could do myself now that the tires are already mounted? Could I completely deflate the tire on the rim and clean up the mounting surface and get some tire lube?

It's normally pretty difficult to break the bead, even with something made for doing it such as manual tire changer that I use. If you are somehow able to do it, you could clean it up with mineral spirits and then it would be easy to reseat, being 12.50 wide on an 8" rim. You would want to use some type of lubricant (preferably tire lube or soapy water would probably be fine too) for reseating the bead. I'm surprised regular tire shops wouldn't mount 6 years old tires. I thought Discount Tire has a 10 year limit. I think I would probably wait for it to happen again and try to feel if it seems too slippery on the bead before going through all that work based on just a guess.

You said its been a different tire each time, maybe next time will be the fourth and final tire and you'll be good based on what's happened so far.

 

[GregBelleville]

I think I'm going to try them at 12 psi next time and see how that goes. If this problem continues I'll have to think about trying to try and clean them up the rim.

Was a fun day otherwise!

 

[hear]

@GregBelleville where was that picture taken at?

 

[macleanflood]

I've had 33s and 35s ... BFG KO2s and KM3s... C rated...had them down to 3 or 4 psi in the snow and the only time I've debeaded a tire is winching sideways.

-Mac

 

[mrblaine]

Is this something that I could do myself now that the tires are already mounted? Could I completely deflate the tire on the rim and clean up the mounting surface and get some tire lube?

You need to go back to bubba and have them remove a tire. Once the tire is off, compare the wide of the tire bead to the width of the groove created by the safety bead and make sure that the lip of the tire bead is not up on the inner raised ring of the safety bead. If the inner edge of the tire bead is up on the safety bead on the wheel, they will pop off very easily and leak air or lose the bead.

 

[GregBelleville]

@GregBelleville where was that picture taken at?

This is out in the high desert here in So Cal, known as Calico, near Barstow. Lots of tight canyons and abandoned mines to explore.

 

[GregBelleville]

You need to go back to bubba and have them remove a tire. Once the tire is off, compare the wide of the tire bead to the width of the groove created by the safety bead and make sure that the lip of the tire bead is not up on the inner raised ring of the safety bead. If the inner edge of the tire bead is up on the safety bead on the wheel, they will pop off very easily and leak air or lose the bead.

View attachment 666055

If I understand you, you're saying the interior edge of the tire should be on the left-hand said of that ridge aka the safety bead?

 

[mrblaine]

If I understand you, you're saying the interior edge of the tire should be on the left-hand said of that ridge aka the safety bead?

I don't think that is what I said at all. The safety bead of the wheel is the only thing that keeps the tire bead from moving inward at low pressures. At normal street pressure, the air pressure does it but we need something else at low pressure and that is the safety bead.

The problem is there are no standards for tire manufacturers to use that dictate the shape of the air lip seal and bead. Some tires like the MTR have to have that trimmed down to run them with beadlocks because they are so wide.