Quality rant

[Flivver250]

Is real quality a vanishing concept? Four and a half decades ago I was a mechanic in the Army and later tried my hand wrenching commercially (Didn’t care for it). When we ran to the local parts store we bought parts for whatever it was we were working on. American made parts for American cars, German parts for German cars and Japanese made parts for Japanese cars. Rarely did we get defective new parts. Name brands meant something. Today manufacturers have ISO standards drilled into them (bought and paid for), Lean Six principals drilled into their empty heads as the management fad du jour. Wizards and druids performing incense infused incantations on the staff all with the intent of reducing defects and improving productivity. Okay, why the hell is buying a name brand part such a damn crap shoot? I doubt I ever had a bad BlueStreak ignition part after buying and using thousands of them. Don’t recall having bearings go bad and very few if any component/parts failures ever. You bought a part, installed it and rolled the next rig into the bay without a backward glance. All the quality tricks of management don’t mean crap if faulty parts get packaged and sold. Why with the advent of computers and lasers and exacting standards can’t a company spit out a decent throw out bearing? I think the quality of the materials and final products has gone backwards. I think quality is a feel good training module, not an actual manufacturing practice. ISO my ass, I got your Lean Six hanging!

 

[01CuHed]

American corporations main goal is to keep costs down to make their stock more appealing...even if it means outsourcing their production labor to foreign "sweat shops" while using lesser quality materials. I for one would rather pay higher prices for quality American made products like we use to have versus the junk that doesn't stand up to the test of time today. I have long thought that Wallstreet played a big part in ending the age of quality and replaced it with quantity....more sales equals more profit. Make goods disposable...that way consumers will have to buy more often.

 

[mrblaine]

American corporations main goal is to keep costs down to make their stock more appealing...even if it means outsourcing their production labor to foreign "sweat shops" while using lesser quality materials. I for one would rather pay higher prices for quality American made products like we use to have versus the junk that doesn't stand up to the test of time today. I have long thought that Wallstreet played a big part in ending the age of quality and replaced it with quantity....more sales equals more profit. Make goods disposable...that way consumers will have to buy more often :>(

In every one of these type discussions I always see the blame put on the corporations wanting to make higher profits. I don't believe that is the genesis in the least. If you lay two parts down in front of the average consumer that look nearly identical and one is 10% less, they will buy the cheaper one 99 times out of a 100 without giving any thought whatsoever to the fact that the higher priced version can last 2, 3, or more times longer. In fact, that concept is so accurate that if it weren't, Harbor Freight, Walmart, Target, and others of that ilk would not exist. The American consumer doesn't give a shit about quality, they want a lower price and for the vast majority, they care nary a whit about the cost in quality and durability to get it. The consumer drives the business model.

When it comes to auto parts, Kragen, O'reilly, Checker, Advance, Autozone, etc. and for the most part NAPA care very little about quality. They sell very few premium parts so they don't stock them ever. They generally stock and sell what moves and what moves isn't anything good, but it is cheap. (at least that is what I see at all the ones around here)

 

[JEEPCJTJ]

It looks like mrblain hit he nail on the head. Further looking shows the nail is a railroad spike and refers to just about every product, and the parts needed to keep them going.

 

[Daryl]

Maybe ISO is an acronym for in search of

 

[Flivver250]

Lots of reasons the cost of US goods went up. Foreign competition is one of them. Desire for cheap is another. The US labor market competes with government provided free money given to those who find sloth preferable to work. Employers have to start out by competing with the pay and benefits Uncle Sugar doles out to ballot box lever pullers. From there, the taxation and restrictions on businesses large and small is confiscatory and restrictive. When I was a kid growing up, all of my clothes and toys were US made. Our cars, appliances, and electronics were all US made. Our watches and cameras were US made. There were probably 40 major manufacturers of TVs and a TV repair shop in every town. Our companies were targeted for assassination and our government allowed it. While it may seem we are hooked on cheap stuff, I am not sure the average consumer is aware there are homegrown alternatives. Why are we importing chicken, carrot,s and tomato's? I don't think they are actually cheaper. I live out of country and when I look at products made by Delco or MOPAR, I promise you most of those aren't US made. Our manufacturing has been dying a death by a thousand cuts.

 

[astjp2]

Ford = made in china/mexico
Mopar= made in china/mexico
GM =made in china/mexico
Lots of parts are now made in China for the OEM's with a lot still made in Mexico
Subaru=made in Kentucky/Tennessee
Honda=made in Ohio

 

[mrblaine]

While it may seem we are hooked on cheap stuff, I am not sure the average consumer is aware there are homegrown alternatives.

How does it just "seem" like we are hooked when there is an hourly competition between all the large retailers like Walmart, Amazon, Target, etc. for your spending dollar? Not one of those ever puts up an ad that says, "hey, it costs a bit more but it is higher quality and lasts longer". What they do instead is promise the cheapest prices possible and price matching if you find the same thing lower elsewhere. The consumer drives the quality by demanding the lowest price at the sacrifice of all else. They do not care that the lawnmowers of yesteryear would be something you could use for a lifetime and pass down to your kids, they care that they can mow 5.9 square feet of lawn for 120 bucks 3 times a year and if they don't have room for it when they move, they can set it by the curb and not give a shit. For every consumer that requests quality over price, I can line up 10,000 that don't.

Why are we importing chicken, carrot,s and tomato's? I don't think they are actually cheaper.

Economy of scale and existing business model. If you have a large company that has infrastructure in place to import common fruits that aren't normally grown here, it doesn't take much to branch out and start tapping into the vegetable and meat market. There isn't much that stops someone from putting in a few hundred chicken sheds right next to where they grow bananas and coconuts. If you can do that and you are able to do it for a few percentage points under what it can be produced for here, why not?

I live out of country and when I look at products made by Delco or MOPAR, I promise you most of those aren't US made. Our manufacturing has been dying a death by a thousand cuts.

All the MOPAR products like all the rest of the stuff sold here has to have the country of origin on the box. I see the same things. I also don't care that much because it is a losing battle that consumes my time that can be better spent on things I can change. We have had one president in the last 20 years that gives a shit about such things and the amount of grief the news gives him daily for it would be enough that after 1 hour of it I would have told them all to go fuck themselves, keep on keeping on until there is nothing left and China owns all of us. Everyone is all gung ho America first until they have to pay a few more cents for something and then it is "fuck that, I'm out, where's my English to Chinese language lessons?".

 

[L J]

I have long thought that Wallstreet played a big part in ending the age of quality and replaced it with quantity....more sales equals more profit. Make goods disposable...that way consumers will have to buy more often.

I'm not going to argue against the idea of planned obsolescence but consumers play an even bigger part in that one cannot have the "latest and greatest" if the old one lasts twenty years. This only became more prevalent as we transitioned into the digital age. People are attracted to bright and shiny objects. The corporations are just giving the vast majority of consumers what they want.

 

[acct21]

It has been more eloquently stated by several posters already, but (again) this is not the fault of the manufacturers, the distributors, or the retailers. US consumers simply do not give a shit about quality. They want new, cheap, and fast. We've essentially set our own quality standards with our wallets.

 

[chino1969]

I'm not going to argue against the idea of planned obsolescence but consumers play an even bigger part in that one cannot have the "latest and greatest" if the old one lasts twenty years. This only became more prevalent as we transitioned into the digital age. People are attracted to bright and shiny objects. The corporations are just giving the vast majority of consumers what they want.

'People are attracted to bright and shiny objects'. So too are members of the corvid family like crows, ravens, magpies and jackdaws. Most have to have the biggest, newest, most whistles and bells, etc.. Look at how many line up overnight at the Apple store every time they Apple comes out with another shiny object.

 

[Moab]

Or could it be that the American wage has gone the same way? I know few people into their cars with a high wage to match. Unless your a weekend enthusiast. That depends on your Jeep to get you a hundred miles in and a hundred miles out. Your just looking to get to the next pay day and keep your kids fed.

I was listening to my sister talk about a couple car repairs on her Honda suv this week. It was an AC compressor and a water pump. At her normal mechanic it was a $2500 job. But after she shopped for refurbished China made parts. She took it to her garage mechanic who did it for a fraction of that cost. She makes $26 an hour. But still can't afford a $2500 repair job.

And with the quality of used cars these days. She doesn't know if the engine or tranny or something even more expensive is going to go out next month. So how can she justify US parts and a quality US mechanic for $2500 this month? She can't.

Now I can't talk her into a carbureted vehicle with fewer moving parts. That is easy to work on. And a little older without all the emissions stuff on it. For a long term vehicle. That she could afford to fill with good oem parts.

That's how I view my Jeep. So I don't mind spending on parts that are going to last. As this is my long term cheap to fix car. I can't talk her into that. But I wish I could. And to stop buying used cars off of used car lots. She gets ripped off every time. But so do a majority of American households.

 

[reddvltj]

Subaru=made in Kentucky/Tennessee
Honda=made in Ohio

Assembled in KY, TN, and OH, with parts made in their home countries!!

Oh and Toyota too in... IN, MI, and KS also just assembled here.

 

[acct21]

Assembled in KY, TN, and OH, with parts made in their home countries!!

Oh and Toyota too in... IN, MI, and KS also just assembled here.

All Tundras (and half of all Tacomas made) are assembled in San Antonio. Other half of NA Tacomas are assembled in Mexico.

 

[reddvltj]

All Tundras (and half of all Tacomas made) are assembled in San Antonio. Other half of NA Tacomas are assembled in Mexico.

Yeah, they're spread out from Canada to Mexico, but they're still just assembled here...

 

[rasband]

It has been more eloquently stated by several posters already, but (again) this is not the fault of the manufacturers, the distributors, or the retailers. US consumers simply do not give a shit about quality. They want new, cheap, and fast. We've essentially set our own quality standards with our wallets.

Agreed, many people treat things as disposable - consequently the demand for durability has dropped and as such manufacturers responded. It’s been a race to the bottom, unfortunately, driven by demand of many folks without taste or discernment.

 

[steelhd]

All the quality tricks of management don’t mean crap if faulty parts get packaged and sold.

You have it exactly right ... just backwards. Exacting quality costs money and now they know how exactly much to the thousandth of a penny it costs for each increment of improvement. If the cost of making a better product is more than the cost for returns, replacements, and lost business they don't make a better product. Its all about the bottom line. "Good enough" can be very lucrative.

At one time Craftsman tools were only sold at Sears and had (still do?) had a no questions asked return guarantee if they failed. Back in the early eighties they could make make better tools for very little cost but they were purposefully allowing flaws in their production. Why? Dad would break a tool in the shop then Mom would return it the next day and buy something else while in the store. They knew exactly how much business they were losing and gaining.

 

[mots]

Assembled in KY, TN, and OH, with parts made in their home countries!!

Oh and Toyota too in... IN, MI, and KS also just assembled here.

Honda actually does make engines, transmissions, and some other Honda/Acura components right here in Ohio. Maybe just assembly of parts made elsewhere still, not sure.

 

[reddvltj]

Honda actually does make engines, transmissions, and some other Honda/Acura components right here in Ohio. Maybe just assembly of parts made elsewhere still, not sure.

That's not all that surprising really, it's probably going to happen more and more with all the tariffs. Cheaper to source components than import them?!?!?

 

[billiebob]

I think the quality of the materials and final products has gone backwards

On the money... unfortunately all everyone cares about is the money.
People will die, drive 100 miles, shop on line to save a dollar.
If WalMart saves a buck... screw made in the USA eh.

Too bad Made in America has to compete with 5 cents an hour.
Too bad retailers sell their souls for a nickel of margin.
Too bad we think "shop local" is obscene.