Novak Conversions Jeep Wrangler TJ engine mounts

Brake job not going as expected

mashenden

Member
Original poster
Joined
Feb 27, 2023
Messages
41
Location
Richmond, VA, USA
I'm mechanically inclined, but brake repairs always seem to give me problems. Here is what happened this time...

I needed to replace my passenger side wheel bearing on my daughter's 2000 Wrangler Sahara. While doing this I also replaced the pads (on both sides) as they were getting a bit thin. While test driving it was obvious that they were binding. Next, I replaced the calipers and rotors, then bled the new front calipers. When the front wheels were put on, they would not move at all. The Jeep could barely overcome them when using the engine. Apparently they sent me the wrong rotors because the wheels turn just fine with the old rotors back on.

So, now with both binding issues resolved (bad old calipers and wrong new rotors), it is clear that the brakes are still not as they should be - pedal goes to floor and the brakes barely hold. Brake light stays on. Next I bled all 4 corners starting with the passenger rear side, then drivers rear side, then passenger front, then drivers front. No improvement except brake light goes out just a bit when pumping brakes. Definelty not right.

Bled front two calipers again. No change. No brake line leaks as I would see that on the driveway.

When bleeding I kept the reservoir full and at the wheel end I used a bottle with a hose thru a vented cap like everyone uses. Opened 1/4 turn and had someone slowly pump the brakes until all bubbles were gone. The engine was on when doing this. So far I have pushed about 25 oz through - not sure if that is enough.

Any ideas on what I could be doing wrong or what I should troubleshoot to figure out what's wrong?

Solid help would be appreciated.
 
Last edited:
I'm mechanically inclined, but brake repairs always seem to give me problems. Here is what happened this time...

I needed to replace my passenger side wheel bearing on my daughter's 2000 Wrangler Sahara. While doing this I also replaced the pads (on both sides) as they were getting a bit thin. While test driving it was obvious that they were binding. Next, I replaced the calipers and rotors, then bled the new front calipers. When the front wheels were put on, they would not move at all. The Jeep could barely overcome them when using the engine. Apparently they sent me the wrong rotors because the wheels turn just fine with the old rotors back on.

So, now with both binding issues resolved (bad old calipers and wrong new rotors), it is clear that the brakes are still not as they should be - pedal goes to floor and the brakes barely hold. Brake light stays on. Next I bled all 4 corners starting with the passenger rear side, then drivers rear side, then passenger front, then drivers front. No improvement except brake light goes out just a bit when pumping brakes. Definelty not right.

Bled front two calipers again. No change. No brake line leaks as I would see that on the driveway.

When bleeding I kept the reservoir full and at the wheel end I used a bottle with a hose thru a vented cap like everyone uses. Opened 1/4 turn and had someone slowly pump the brakes until all bubbles were gone. The engine was on when doing this. So far I have pushed about 25 oz through - not sure if that is enough.

Any ideas on what I could be doing wrong or what I should troubleshoot to figure out what's wrong?

Solid help would be appreciated.
So far it is easier to point out what you've done right since that takes fewer words, or just one so far, nothing.

1- verify bleed screws are on top. Verify means prove it.
2-bleed with key on, parking brake off, if the dash light comes on, close the bleeder and stomp the pedal until it goes off.
3- bleed by opening the bleed screw, pedal down hard and fast, hold at bottom, close bleeder and let the pedal up.
4- if there is any chance the master drained too far, stop and bench bleed it with the plugged port method.
5- never bleed with the engine running.
 
So far it is easier to point out what you've done right since that takes fewer words, or just one so far, nothing.

1- verify bleed screws are on top. Verify means prove it.
2-bleed with key on, parking brake off, if the dash light comes on, close the bleeder and stomp the pedal until it goes off.
3- bleed by opening the bleed screw, pedal down hard and fast, hold at bottom, close bleeder and let the pedal up.
4- if there is any chance the master drained too far, stop and bench bleed it with the plugged port method.
5- never bleed with the engine running.

Yeah, after reading your instructions on the other post, I now realize that.

Re: 1, definitely not on top. I am guessing they need to be swapped from driver to passenger side and vice versa. I'm also guessing there is a big ass bubble in there that is not bleeding out, since the bleed screws are at the bottom.

I'll pause here since that is the (now) obvious thing that needs to be fixed. Also I retract my claim about being mechanically inclined - that is now revoked :( .

Thank you!!

A couple of things that surprise me, having googled quite a bit before doing the job - I never noticed mention of calipers having a left vs right side, nor mention that bleeding should be done with the engine off (until I read your instructions). Live and learn.

Again, thank you for cutting to the chase. Very helpful. I'll be back in a bit (I've gotten pretty good at this - this will be my 4th time in 24 hours :) )
 
Yeah, after reading your instructions on the other post, I now realize that.

Re: 1, definitely not on top. I am guessing they need to be swapped from driver to passenger side and vice versa. I'm also guessing there is a big ass bubble in there that is not bleeding out, since the bleed screws are at the bottom.

I'll pause here since that is the (now) obvious thing that needs to be fixed. Also I retract my claim about being mechanically inclined - that is now revoked :( .

Thank you!!

A couple of things that surprise me, having googled quite a bit before doing the job - I never noticed mention of calipers having a left vs right side, nor mention that bleeding should be done with the engine off (until I read your instructions). Live and learn.

Again, thank you for cutting to the chase. Very helpful. I'll be back in a bit (I've gotten pretty good at this - this will be my 4th time in 24 hours :) )
Being mechanically inclined has very little to do with it. We've all made that mistake and even done it when we know better. That is how we know to look for it and make folks prove they are on top. I've asked at least 30 customers with similar issues if they were on top and they all said they were until they sent over pics that showed they weren't which is why I say to "prove it".
 
  • Like
Reactions: John Cooper
Being mechanically inclined has very little to do with it. We've all made that mistake and even done it when we know better. That is how we know to look for it and make folks prove they are on top. I've asked at least 30 customers with similar issues if they were on top and they all said they were until they sent over pics that showed they weren't which is why I say to "prove it".

Yep! A picture is worth even more than 1000 words.
 
Thank you , mrblaine!! You too gregbelleville and rouxicon!!

Swapping the calipers put the bleed screws on top allowing the system to bleed as it should. All is now working on the brake system. Nice firm brake pedal, no BRAKE light on dash, and most importantly, it stops!!

I really appreciate the help from this forum.
 
Thank you tnjeepguy. Both the orange 2003 Rubicon and the one I was working on today (2000 black Sahara) are my daughters. The black one has been a good vehicle for her since 2006, but at 187K miles it has too many to be her daily driver. We found the Orange Rubi up in Columbus - only had 34K miles. A decent price given the low mileage (not to be confused with cheap), but then discovered after owning it for a bit that it did not have AC :) Ooops, that was an oversight!! Its fairly easy to think the AC is working when testing things in the early Spring in Ohio!

Since she lives most of the time in the Keys, I ended up putting AC in. That was quite a job - much harder than today's brake job even after a comedy of errors that resulted in 4 cycles of removing the brakes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: John Cooper
Novak Conversions Jeep Wrangler TJ engine mounts