A/C failure after heater core repair

[kmac5130]

Update on A/C: need help in responding.
The shop just left me a message saying that my compressor melted and clutch seized or something. What I need to know from experts here on this thread is if this is something totally separate or a result from condensation or some thing from a leak in the system left over from the Heater core repair. Like I said, my air conditioner never worked appropriately after the heater core repair but before that was very amazing I had brought it in after the repair to report that it was not working and they apparently found the Schrader valve was open and apparently fixed that And charged up my system.
Is there anyone on this thread that would be willing to let me know if this is something that could result from poor workmanship on the heater core.

It “could” have resulted from moisture getting into the system when the heater core was replaced, since the AC system must be opened in order to replace the heater core. That being said, it would be impossible to prove. Also, since moisture would have gotten in regardless of who performed the work, it is an inherent risk involved in replacing the heater core. You could make the case that the shop should have advised you to replace the AC drier while replacing the heater core, but I wouldnt necessarily agree with that. My own AC system has been opened multiple times without replacing the drier, and it still functions perfectly well. The truth is that these vehicles are 20 years old and once you replace one thing, it can mean that other parts should be replaced as well, but it’s hard for a shop to recommend a list of parts that a customer will likely turn down. Also, since these vehicles are old, parts are going to fail if they haven’t already. Trying to say that one repair ended the life of another part is a very slippery slope.

 

[macleanflood]

It's possible. In addition to freon in the AC system you have PAG oil that lubricates the compressor.

The shop opened up the AC system. They probably do it all the time and get away with it. This time it broke stuff. They probably don't work on many 20+ year old vehicles.

-Mac

 

[Tami]

It's possible. In addition to freon in the AC system you have PAG oil that lubricates the compressor.

The shop opened up the AC system. They probably do it all the time and get away with it. This time it broke stuff. They probably don't work on many 20+ year old vehicles.

-Mac

If it hadn’t shown up right away after the repair then I would not be so concerned, however they had two takes on it when i brought it back in and they found an issue with the workmanship. They said it was all charged up and ready to go- a simple Schrader valve… charged up and filled. .and it ended up failing and being damaged . I can’t help but be concerned that it’s not connected. I want to be fair in my assumptions. The part needed was $16. My invoice did not show vacuuming the system etc. there were also speaker wires and other wires left hanging out so I really wasn’t too impressed. But, I want to trust the guy. Just not be ignorant going into the conversation.
Should I go get a second opinion?

 

[macleanflood]

You could get a second opinion but realistically it depends on the shop. If they're reasonable they'll either fix the problem or suggest a compromise.

If they're not then I would cancel my credit card charges, report them to the better business bureau, the state board for licensed professionals, and leave honest reviews on Google and other sites.

-Mac

 

[Tami]

You could get a second opinion but realistically it depends on the shop. If they're reasonable they'll either fix the problem or suggest a compromise.

If they're not then I would cancel my credit card charges, report them to the better business bureau, the state board for licensed professionals, and leave honest reviews on Google and other sites.

-Mac

Mac- so both the clutch and compressor damage could have resulted from improper attention to the AC system in your mind? And you deem it appropriate for them to compromise at the very least to fix it?

 

[Link]

There isn't enough info to know. These are now older vehicles that started with Chrysler quality. Only way to know would be to take the compressor apart and find the failure point. Nothing lasts forever and with older vehicles, things fail.

 

[macleanflood]

Yup. It's just 50/50. Chicken and egg question.

Personally if I was the shop I would have discussed the fact that we needed to discharge the AC system to affect the repair, and we'd be touching a lot of 20 year old parts. This is like surgery on grandma...there are risks involved and you should be aware.

I also would have used that conversation as an opportunity to upsell replacing other parts.

I wouldn't have let a vehicle return to a customer with wires hanging down, but mistakes happen.

At this point it's up to you and the shop to come up with a fair compromise for fixing things.

If I was a shop owner I'd probably offer to do the labor for free if you purchased the parts... knowing full well that the compressor is a 20-30 minute swap and a recharge and leak test is basically hooking up the AC machine and pressing a few buttons every now and then as the machine tests and fills.

-Mac

 

[Tami]

Here's the scoop.
Shop owner said compressor melted and front clutch seized up.
Called shop back today and spoke to mechanic that had been informed about situation.
Mechanic said owner offered to give me parts at cost so instead of $1500+ my bill would be a little over $1000
I told him that I had been on here trying to gain knowledge about causative factors so I could reasonably understand the mechanical reasons for this "catastrophic event".
I told him that I understood that the system could be compromised as it was opened up during the repair. That the lubricant, low coolant and condensation could cause the compressor to seize. He agreed that it could be the case but that they typically vaccum out the system for 15 minutes then cap off the system. He was not the guy who did the work.
He told me that that lack of lubricaiton could be true for compressor but in my case, it's the clutch that was melted and that they would have to dissect the compressor to see what went wrong.
A different picture from initial story.
He added that they put a few drops of the oil when they do the work. I have read that too much or too little can cause problems and that it needs to be measured.
He said replacing the accumulator isn't standard even on older vehicles, that the 15 minutes of vaccuming should have sufficed.
I mentioned the leak discovered after the initial repair.
Could this have allowed more moisture into system?
I don't feel that the shop is being generous or taking accountablity for the damage by simply not overcharging me for parts. I know it's not provable but according to information I have gathered and how this plays out makes me think any reasonalbe person would conclude that it's highly probable that the system was compromised at the time of the heater core repair, then again after taking it back with the problems acknowleding that there was a leak, then again being poo-pooed after mentioning it still didn't feel right to me.
Not to mention it had less than 400 miles on it since the repair and only really used the AC once during a super hot Idaho day when the system completely failed.
I want to continue to have a good relationship with the shop but I can not afford another thousand dollars in CASH to pay for what I deem to be a problem that they had several chances to address and didn't.
They never mentioned anything about my AC system when I took it in for heater core.
Mac said it's a 30 minute job, any idea on how much the parts would be for this repair and how much they are charging me for labor? What is fair and reasonable here?
Thoughts?

 

[macleanflood]

I'd use a Denso and they're around $200 for the whole compressor.

I'd also spend $30 on a receiver, drier and a little more on an o ring kit.

A recharge and leak test should be less than $200.

-Mac

 

[Tami]

no worries.

I am an engineer with 17 years in commercial and industrial refrigeration and HVAC system design. I enjoy this place in the summer because all the AC threads pop up and I actually get to be the guy that helps people instead of the one always asking for help.

Have you stayed tuned to how this story unravels? Just curious of your thoughts. I’m so appreciative of all you guys here who have helped me understand.
Cheers!

 

[TJ4Jim]

Along with macleanflood's suggestion since your dealing with a failed compressor I would also replace the liquid line w/orifice and have the condenser and evap coils flushed with all refrigerant oil being replaced since contamination is a real possibility. Also I feel that a 15 minute system evacuation is a bit lax since the FSM suggests pumping down then let it sit for 5 minutes (leaks) then run an additional 10 minutes, especially since the dryer was not replaced.

​

 

[Tami]

I'd use a Denso and they're around $200 for the whole compressor.

I'd also spend $30 on a receiver, drier and a little more on an o ring kit.

A recharge and leak test should be less than $200.

View attachment 549436

-Mac

Thank you for all of your help and guidance! I wish you could be my mechanic

 

[macleanflood]

Thank you for all of your help and guidance! I wish you could be my mechanic

I lived in Boise for twenty years. We're out there every once in a while.

Keep meaning to come out and run the Magruder Corridor.

I'd replace the compressor yourself, and the o-rings. You can do most of it with a 15mm socket, a pick and some silicone grease.

Then figure out who had a good deal on a test and recharge.

-Mac

 

[Link]

I lived in Boise for twenty years. We're out there every once in a while.

Keep meaning to come out and run the Magruder Corridor.

I'd replace the compressor yourself, and the o-rings. You can do most of it with a 15mm socket, a pick and some silicone grease.

Then figure out who had a good deal on a test and recharge.

-Mac

I would do some sort of flush even if you just opened all the hoses, then blew compressed air through everything to clean it out. Nitrogen would be even better. Remove the orifice before doing it. It's a very simple system but don't want potential compressor material damage the new compressor. Some places won't warranty the new compressor unless you can show you used a flush kit.

Also agree with replacing the receiver/dryer. It's cheap and good insurance. I've done AC repairs without replacing it but the longer the system is open, the more important replacement is.

I'd also hold a vacuum for at least 1 hr. Yes it's over kill. I'd still do it for at least 1 hr. My Jeep AC system runs ice cold.

 

[williambmac]

As a tech, I would have recommended replacing the evaporator while I had the dash out for the heater core. This would save you the expense of a future repair.
Do you need to replace the filter/dryer just because the system was open for a short period of time, nope. I typically tape the ends shut.
Would I recommend it based on the age of the vehicle, yes.
Did all this cause the compressor to fail, probably not and it would be hard to prove.
The shop should have performed a leak test once they evacuated, they system to verify it holds vacuum.
Once they recharged the system, they should have performed an a/c system to verify vent temps and pressures.
Low and high side pressure would have given the shop a good indication of how the system was running.
From what you are describing, it sounds like the compressor failed and burned up the clutch. Now at this point you are going to replace the compressor, filter/dryer and the orifice tube.
Most newer a/c machines have a flush mode, so I would assume they are going to flush the system, also make sure they add the correct amount of PAG oil to the system.

 

[freedom_in_4low]

Have you stayed tuned to how this story unravels? Just curious of your thoughts. I’m so appreciative of all you guys here who have helped me understand.
Cheers!

I have. Unfortunately i dont have anything to add to what's already been posted. It does seem like a big coincidence but nothing we're aware that they did really presents the kind of smoking gun I like to see before making big accusations.

Something that kinda sucks is now that the compressor has seized it's probably put bits of metal through the whole system, and I wouldn't myself feel confident just changing out the compressor. I'd probably call around to some other shops and get competitive quotes though, as I'm not convinced enough of this shops abilities to give them another $1000.

 

[ChasUGC]

I have a 97 Wrangler. When I took mine to the mechanic for a heater core, I ended up with a slight leak that caused my AC to get warm after a few months. The mechanic fixed it and I've been blowing cold now for six months with no change. It sounds to me like you are being taken for a ride. If your AC was fine before the heater core, which is not directly related, it sounds like they messed up your AC system, either by not closing it or not evacuating it and placing in oil when they recharged it. It makes no sense to me how your compressor and clutch are now toast and burned up unless they did something wrong and want to charge you for it. I would contact the Bureau Of Automotive Repair and I would ask for half the money for the repair and get estimates from another shop, and not take my Jeep back to that shop ever. Some repair shops try to take advantage of women and seeing that your ID says, Tami, I suspect this might be the case. Maybe search Goggle for shops with high star ratings in your area, that specialize in AC, and get estimates from them. I've had shops where I would go to for one problem and then another problem after problem would suddenly manifest. I don't go to those shops anymore. This is my experience and comment, though not definitive. There are bad mechanics just like bad cops. Although like cops, there are good mechanics too. I could tell you some real horror stories dealing with bad mechanics. This is probably part of the reason why most people here do their own work. Good luck.

 

[Tami]

I have. Unfortunately i dont have anything to add to what's already been posted. It does seem like a big coincidence but nothing we're aware that they did really presents the kind of smoking gun I like to see before making big accusations.

Something that kinda sucks is now that the compressor has seized it's probably put bits of metal through the whole system, and I wouldn't myself feel confident just changing out the compressor. I'd probably call around to some other shops and get competitive quotes though, as I'm not convinced enough of this shops abilities to give them another $1000.

So when you talk about putting bits of metal in my whole system , what system and what would need replaced or done to ensure it’s repaired appropriately?
I’m going to sell my Jeep now sadly.
The buyer does not want that shop to touch it again but wants me to get him the parts and he’ll do the work.
Sigh, I loved old Rubi.
Is there a site that would give me an idea of selling price for a Jeep besides kbb?

 

[kmac5130]

So when you talk about putting bits of metal in my whole system , what system and what would need replaced or done to ensure it’s repaired appropriately?
I’m going to sell my Jeep now sadly.
The buyer does not want that shop to touch it again but wants me to get him the parts and he’ll do the work.
Sigh, I loved old Rubi.
Is there a site that would give me an idea of selling price for a Jeep besides kbb?

The A/C system. If the compressor had a catastrophic failure, it may have dispersed metal pieces throughout the system. If it did, then it will continue to ruin replacement compressors if it is not cleaned out or if the entire system is not replaced.
Then to get a good idea of what Jeeps are selling for, you really have to be on Facebook marketplace for a little while to get an idea. People will list some unrealistically high, so just seeing list prices will not inform you properly. You have to see over a couple months what jeeps are actually selling for which prices. The shortcut to that would be looking at the listed prices, get rid of outliers, then compare your jeep’s condition and mileage to those listed. Price accordingly

 

[freedom_in_4low]

So when you talk about putting bits of metal in my whole system , what system and what would need replaced or done to ensure it’s repaired appropriately?

As @kmac5130 states, the AC system. I'm not sure what's typical in automotive, but I would replace the orifice and the accumulator drier for sure, and the remaining lines and the evaporator and condenser should be flushed.