Novak Conversions Jeep Wrangler TJ radiator

98 TJ high idle / running rich

The Name’s Suze

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Starting to run out of ideas here. I’ve got my ‘98 manual 4.0 (here name is Susan for reference) that is idling high and running really rich. So when I start her up she runs like a top, sits around 800 RPM and drives well until we get up to operating temp. Once’s she’s warm, idle starts to climb. If I have it in the driveway just at idle it will slowly start to creep up once it gets warm and sit between 1500-2000 RPM. When driving it’ll idle at about those RPMs when I’m at a light or stop, but when I shift between gears it’ll skyrocket well past 2000 until I get it in gear (feels like someone stomps the throttle between gears, a little scary to shift between them). I also noticed that she’s been running really rich lately, lots of black soot caked on the exhaust and a D ring on the rear bumper. The exhaust I put on about 4 months ago or so, problems only started to arise maybe a month ago.

I’ve read probably forum on this topic and tried quite a few troubleshooting ideas, so here’s where I’m at:
Checked for any vacuum leaks, unsuccessful in finding any as of yet. The intake and exhaust manifolds (to my knowledge) have never been removed so unless they’ve shaken a bolt loose I think I can rule that out. Throttle body, IAC, MAP port in TB have all been thoroughly cleaned. Battery disconnected and let sit for half an hour and reconnected. New sparks plugs (just plugs, not wires or distributor cap). Maybe a random thing or two that I’m forgetting, as well as acknowledging the fact that cars are pain but I still love my girl dearly.

Next thought would be to replace both upstream O2 sensors. Other than that, I’m pretty stumped. Don’t want to start throwing parts at her, not sure that any of it’s necessary just yet (remains to be seen).

Main confusion is from the fact that she starts and idles fine at first, but once she gets up to temp she gets upset. Any and all suggestions are both welcomed and encouraged, thank you guys so much for the help!!
 
Starting to run out of ideas here. I’ve got my ‘98 manual 4.0 (here name is Susan for reference) that is idling high and running really rich. So when I start her up she runs like a top, sits around 800 RPM and drives well until we get up to operating temp. Once’s she’s warm, idle starts to climb. If I have it in the driveway just at idle it will slowly start to creep up once it gets warm and sit between 1500-2000 RPM. When driving it’ll idle at about those RPMs when I’m at a light or stop, but when I shift between gears it’ll skyrocket well past 2000 until I get it in gear (feels like someone stomps the throttle between gears, a little scary to shift between them). I also noticed that she’s been running really rich lately, lots of black soot caked on the exhaust and a D ring on the rear bumper. The exhaust I put on about 4 months ago or so, problems only started to arise maybe a month ago.

I’ve read probably forum on this topic and tried quite a few troubleshooting ideas, so here’s where I’m at:
Checked for any vacuum leaks, unsuccessful in finding any as of yet. The intake and exhaust manifolds (to my knowledge) have never been removed so unless they’ve shaken a bolt loose I think I can rule that out. Throttle body, IAC, MAP port in TB have all been thoroughly cleaned. Battery disconnected and let sit for half an hour and reconnected. New sparks plugs (just plugs, not wires or distributor cap). Maybe a random thing or two that I’m forgetting, as well as acknowledging the fact that cars are pain but I still love my girl dearly.

Next thought would be to replace both upstream O2 sensors. Other than that, I’m pretty stumped. Don’t want to start throwing parts at her, not sure that any of it’s necessary just yet (remains to be seen).

Main confusion is from the fact that she starts and idles fine at first, but once she gets up to temp she gets upset. Any and all suggestions are both welcomed and encouraged, thank you guys so much for the help!!

The reason it runs great when cold is the computer (ECM) Is in open loop mode .Once the engine temperature reaches operating temperature all the sensors start playing a factor in its performance. If you have tried cleaning the IAC and no improvement then I would suggest replacing it. If that doesn’t work then concentrate on the throttle position sensor. When I bought my TJ it had the same issue and I replaced the IAC and no improvement. I further found a post talking about the TPS sensor and that was the issue. Replaced and never had any issues.
 
An engine that runs well when cold and both bad and rich when warm has a bad Upstream O2 sensor located just below the exhaust header. Not your Downstream O2 sensor which only monitors the catalytic converter. No sense replacing the Downstream O2 sensor too which doesn't affect how the engine runs.

The Upstream O2 sensor is what the PCM uses to set the air/fuel mixture but only after the engine starts to warm up.

Replace it only with an NTK, NGK, or Mopar. Only. Avoid Bosch. Check www.rockauto.com

Get the Upstream O2 sensor replaced and after that work on the high idle.
 
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The reason it runs great when cold is the computer (ECM) Is in open loop mode .Once the engine temperature reaches operating temperature all the sensors start playing a factor in its performance. If you have tried cleaning the IAC and no improvement then I would suggest replacing it. If that doesn’t work then concentrate on the throttle position sensor. When I bought my TJ it had the same issue and I replaced the IAC and no improvement. I further found a post talking about the TPS sensor and that was the issue. Replaced and never had any issues.

Haven’t seen much on the TPS but I’ll give that a shot. Didn’t clean it when I took the TB off so might give that a go first and see if I get any results. Thanks for the insight, I’ll keep you posted!
 
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An engine that runs well when cold and both bad and rich when warm has a bad Upstream O2 sensor located just below the exhaust header. Not your Downstream O2 sensor which only monitors the catalytic converter. No sense replacing the Downstream O2 sensor too which doesn't affect how the engine runs.

The Upstream O2 sensor is what the PCM uses to set the air/fuel mixture but only after the engine starts to warm up.

Replace it only with an NTK, NGK, or Mopar. Only. Avoid Bosch. Check www.rockauto.com

Get the Upstream O2 sensor replaced and after that work on the high idle.

The infamous Jerry B, it’s an honor my good man. O2 sensor was going to be my next crack at solving the problem so I’m glad you agree. I’m 99% sure but also want to double check, I’ve only got the 1 upstream sensor on my ‘98 correct? I’ll work on getting a new one over the weekend, will keep you updated as well. Thank you!
 
The infamous Jerry B, it’s an honor my good man. O2 sensor was going to be my next crack at solving the problem so I’m glad you agree. I’m 99% sure but also want to double check, I’ve only got the 1 upstream sensor on my ‘98 correct? I’ll work on getting a new one over the weekend, will keep you updated as well. Thank you!
Yes your 98 has just one upstream and one downstream O2 sensor. Avoid store brands and especially avoid Bosch.
 
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Also could be an exhaust leak.

My O2s were reading under .9v on live data.

Pulled my header and it was broken in three places. Couldn't see it until it was out.

If not all your exhaust is making it to the O2 sensors then it'll richen things up.

Doesn't explain the high idle though.

-Mac
 
Ok so I had no clue it was going to be such a challenge to find this sensor. NGK discontinued some and have been on back order for months it sounds like. I would REALLY like to use an NTK for mine because of all the issues I hear with the other ones, but I’m not sure if I’ll be able to find one.

As far as I know, the part number I need for NTK is 23151 or 23179, both of which are completely unavailable. Can we confirm that those are indeed the part numbers I need and what I should use instead? I saw on another thread a guy mentioned that he used a 23122 but I haven’t seen that advice anywhere else. Again, thanks for all the help
 
Ok so I had no clue it was going to be such a challenge to find this sensor. NGK discontinued some and have been on back order for months it sounds like. I would REALLY like to use an NTK for mine because of all the issues I hear with the other ones, but I’m not sure if I’ll be able to find one.

As far as I know, the part number I need for NTK is 23151 or 23179, both of which are completely unavailable. Can we confirm that those are indeed the part numbers I need and what I should use instead? I saw on another thread a guy mentioned that he used a 23122 but I haven’t seen that advice anywhere else. Again, thanks for all the help
While they're more expensive than NTK, Mopar is actually made by NTK. I'd go for the Mopar 56041212 at https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog...23,exhaust+&+emission,oxygen+(o2)+sensor,5132

You don't need the Downstream O2 sensor which only monitors the catalytic converter, it has no effect on how the engine runs. The above Mopar sensor is the Upstream which is the only O2 sensor needed. Hopefully it's the cure for your problem.
 
New sensor on, cleaned throttle body and IAC again, very little change. Still idles pretty high when it reaches temp, when I put in the clutch it’s first instinct is to increase the RPMs but that’s for about a half a second and then it goes down, so that’s a slight improvement. There were a few times I’d be in neutral and the RPMs would be jumping from normal to about 1500 but then it would just go back to idling high. Disconnected both battery terminals and waited to reset the computer, didn’t do much other than clear the check engine. What other ideas do we have?
 
Novak Conversions Jeep Wrangler TJ radiator